Blended Metal and the worthless, cruel videos that prove nothing.

[Vex]

LeMas Ltd, the manufacturer of the well-known and thoroughly-heckled "Blended Metal" bullets, created a video which shows them shooting pigs with their products, something I've often referred to as "novelty" and "imaginative." I come from a very long line of hunters, and during my life and learnings, I've come to respect nature while understanding that there's a fair balance in life which has often resulted in an animal being killed to feed a family in times of crisis, or when the hankering for home-made deer jerky just happens to coincide with the annual populaton control known as "deer season."

This leads me to the issue at hand, something I feel very strongly about, something that goes against all ethics I've been taught as a hunter, shooter, recent police academy recruit, and moral human being. When LeMas Ltd. shot these animals, they shot them while caged and tied to a tether. Something that, where I come from, people very strongly frown on. I'm not a "hippy" or a "animal rights" advocate, or a "leftist ant-gun communist." I'm merely voicing my opinion on the cruelty that is obviously something LeMas Ltd finds attractive to prospective buyers of their worthless ammunition.

Watch the video and see for yourself:

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=pig_bullet

Something I feel the dire need to point out is that this video proves nothing about the "blended metal" bullets or their unproven claims of performance based off the body heat of a target. It merely proves that something will die and not get away if you tie it up and shoot it.

Here is the page which was sent to me by a very dear, informative friend of mine. Create your own opinions. I, for one, will never purchase "blended metal" ammunition.

http://www.stopanimaltests.com/f-lemasPigs.asp

Animals have friends everywhere, and this case is proof that they need them everywhere. When a caseworker in PETA’s Research & Investigations Department played video footage that was sent to us anonymously, the screams of animals in terrible agony drew the entire department to his computer. There was stunned silence and horror as we all watched while live tethered pigs were hideously wounded by powerful “blended metal” ammunition. One moment, the animals were contentedly eating pumpkins, and the next, they were screaming, bucking, kicking, and trying to run for their lives and away from the tethers that bound them. One of the pigs reacted so violently after he was shot that he snapped the tether and ran out of the camera’s field of vision. The shooter yelled for others to catch the terrified and badly wounded animal.

It could have been a slasher film, complete with graphic slow-motion scenes and prominent background music, but it’s a professionally produced promotional video by Gibby Media Group of Spokane, Washington, for LeMas (Law Enforcement Military Ammunition Sales) Ltd. of Little Rock, Arkansas, the manufacturer and distributor of the bullets.

 

[otomik]

Stan Bulmer, the LeMas guy mentioned by PETA has spat on any kind of scientific testing using calibrated ballistic gellatin. I've even seen the video on the history channel which gave airtime to this windbag huckster shooting a few potroasts.

He's tried to "defend" his rediculous claims and all he does is spew hyperbole.
http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=262940

Just look at the video, what did we see? certainly not the touted "lightning bolt" effect, just a chained animal screaming in pain.

There is animal testing research that might save people's lives and normally PETA pisses me off with their opposition to even reasonable use of animals. This is different, it's just horrible cruelty in order to sell snake oil.

 

[LMC]

That is just very cruel, and it doesn't give you any idea of the bullets preformance on any scale, the same thing would happen with almost any type of bullet, the animal would bleed then die, plain and simple.

 

[ctdonath]

Not for the squeamish

As part of handgun training (LFI-IV) my class went to a slaughterhouse to test loads and, for those who never killed a good-sized mammal, experience doing so. Given the setting & purpose, it was a worthwhile experience.

First off, the animals terminated were unquestionably destined to do so within minutes anyway - it was a slaugherhouse, and we omnivores like hamburgers and pork chops.

My target was a cow. Went down like someone switched off a light, due to pervasive instant cranial hemmoraging (despite a complete miss of the brain by the 115gr 9mm HP). Subsequent autopsies were educational; among other things we found that said 115gr 9mm HP can penetrate 5" of bone, and a .45 slug had a full 5 feet of penetration.

Pigs were slaughtered too, using various loads. Turns out a pig's nervous system is built rather differently than expected: much more neural processing occurs in the spinal cord. As such, instead of the "lights out" effect I observed in the cow, a terminal shot thru a pig's brain sets off an "electrical storm" which can last several minutes - to borrow a phrase, "it's dead, it just hasn't stopped moving yet." The disturbing thrashing & squealing is, unfortunately, just how pigs die - every one of them that ends up on someone's plate, each one dispatched by a .22 thru the crainium.

Awright, what's my point...
1. Geletan & paper alone aren't enough to determine terminal effects.
2. Animal testing is needed to learn some things; terminal effects are called that for a reason.
3. That's how pigs die: lots of thrashing & noise.

We don't know what LeMas did with those pigs afterwards. Hopefully they were consumed like the other potroasts on the farm. I don't discount that live-animal terminal-effects testing is somber & unpleasant - having done it myself. Hopefully LeMas learned some useful things, and had fresh pork chops for the next week.

All that said, and only having seen PETA's edited version of the video, I'm not sure what the point of that particular recording is. Perforating, bleeding & thrashing for a few seconds doesn't tell the viewer much. Somehow I think there's more to the story, and PETA is selectively optimizing their outrage.

 

[ball3006]

I have shot several feral pigs.....

The one I shot with my Glock 27 in 40 S&W, 135 gr hp Corbon, really inpressed me. The shot was about 20 yards. The bullet entered the head right below the right eye, traveled through the head, down the spine, and lodged under the skin by the left shoulder blade. The lead core separated from the jacket about 4 inches before the core came to rest. The pig was about 100 lbs and dropped like a stone with no noise or movement. When I relate this story the reply always is "you shot that pig with what?"......chris3

 

[hso]

If you look at the video you'll see that the animals are shot in the body instead of the head. One animal is shot in the shoulder instead of just behind. There are no CNS shots made.

While gellatin/animal reference shooting is valuable these shootings are not performed in a manner that would provide valuable information. Matter of fact, they don't even make good advertising since the pigs don't drop as advertised.

 

[YellowLab]

I am not a tree huggin PETA freak, but I do subscribe to the notion that if you do kill an animal, it needs to be humane and for a reason.

To sell your bullets is not really one of those reasons. Just because the manufacturer does not tihnk gellatin is 'good enough' to test against means that he gets to shoot animals for no real purpose. Seems that every other scientific body includes gellatin as a satisfactory substitute for a live animal. This dimwit does not.

Needless to say I will not be buying any products LeMas, if they cannot test thier bullets with any scientific credibility then why should I believe anything else they say?

 

[CentralTexas]

Legally pigs are property.
Pigs are just animals why do you care?
If the guy wanted to have sex with the pig, especially if the pig enjoyed it, why would you care?
Have bacon this morning?
CT

 

[BigRobT]

First of all, this is a PeTA site. How do we know the video wasn't manipulated?? PeTA often does things to make them seem worse than they are. I do not trust PeTa or any other terrorist group to tell us or show us the truth.

Ever hear the term, "running around like a chicken with it's head cut off"?? This dates back to the days when people actually slaughtered their own livestock. When the head is cut off, there are a few minutes that the chicken can still run around. Of course, without the head, it can't "see" anything. After it's all done, it becomes dinner.

 

[CentralTexas]

First of all, this is a PeTA site. How do we know the video wasn't manipulated?? PeTA often does things to make them seem worse than they are. I do not trust PeTa or any other terrorist group to tell us or show us the truth.

Ever hear the term, "running around like a chicken with it's head cut off"?? This dates back to the days when people actually slaughtered their own livestock. When the head is cut off, there are a few minutes that the chicken can still run around. Of course, without the head, it can't "see" anything. After it's all done, it becomes dinner.

You are right, never trust anyone! That is silly, especially people who believe strongly in a cause that's just crazy! I hear PETA paid Speilberg MILLIONS to have the movie faked.
PETA is no more a terrorist group than your church. Sure SOME members gave support to ELF & ARF at one time and there are some kool aid drinker types in the membership, so? The NRA has 3-6 million members, some molest children, lie on taxes and litter,so? to
Could you explain the relevance of the whole chicken & head cut off to this thread? ARe you saying since the chicken is dinner it doesn't matter what you do to it? If so please note these pigs aren't dinner they were cruelly killed to sell a product. Ok now this thread will veer off course and turn into a why PETA sucks thread. So to keep the thread on course (I hope) yes, PETA is made up of devil worshipping terrorists. No arguments now right?
CT

 

[gunner03]

Wounding or torturing animals, or even bugs for fun is never a good thing. However testing the performance of a load on real animals, is actually the responsible thing to do. Better to do it on a farm, ( or better yet in a lab with monitors ) than put hundreds or thousands of rounds in the field to find out it is ineffective. That could cause countless game animals to not be recovered. This is not Sport or Hunting, it is research. Distasteful but necessary.
Animals rarely die instantly, deer can sometimes go 100 yards even when hit well. It's adrenalin and the fight or flight instinct, even farm animals have it. I also agree that there is some selective editing at work to increase the horror.
The video may have been made for sales purposes, but the principle is still there. Might not be the best advertising pitch though.

 

[Gun Wielding Maniac]

If you look at the video you'll see that the animals are shot in the body instead of the head. One animal is shot in the shoulder instead of just behind. There are no CNS shots made.

While gellatin/animal reference shooting is valuable these shootings are not performed in a manner that would provide valuable information. Matter of fact, they don't even make good advertising since the pigs don't drop as advertised.

I have to disagree with this statement. Every single one of those pigs was shot in exactly the same place. Rear of the shoulder, where the heart, lungs and liver are located. It would be pointless to shoot all of these pigs in the head or in the spine. You could shoot them in the head with a .22 and the result would be exactly the same.

These rounds are intended to be used against people. So, it makes sense that they would be shot in the same area where you would shoot a person. Every military and police academy on planet earth teaches to aim center of mass, which correlates roughly with the heart, lungs, liver area. If the videos are gruesome, well, so what? So is killing people. Replace the image of the dying pig with a screaming arab, does that make you feel any better?

Honestly, if all of these pigs dropped instantly and noiselessly from body shots, I would think the video was rigged. The only time I've ever seen animals drop without movement after being shot is after a brain shot... and even then there are body twitches.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Just needless cruelty. I would love to get my hands on anyone that did this kind of thing. We had a neighbor once that I caught abusing a small dog Had him tied to a tree and was shooting him with a pellet gun and this guy was like 28-30 yrs old) and it took every ounce of self control I had not to beat him to a bloody lump. I settled for smashing his bb gun then holding him down and choking him out while my partner called the police.
I could never be an animal neglect officer. I am afraid I would spend a fortune in throw downs to justify me shooting all the people I caught abusing animals.

 

[Gun Wielding Maniac]

Just needless cruelty. I would love to get my hands on anyone that did this kind of thing. We had a neighbor once that I caught abusing a small dog Had him tied to a tree and was shooting him with a pellet gun and this guy was like 28-30 yrs old) and it took every ounce of self control I had not to beat him to a bloody lump. I settled for smashing his bb gun then holding him down and choking him out while my partner called the police.
I could never be an animal neglect officer. I am afraid I would spend a fortune in throw downs to justify me shooting all the people I caught abusing animals.

I dont know how you equate a guy shooting a small dog with a pellet gun just for ????s and giggles with someone testing cartridges that may very well be used in combat.

Ok, all you hunters... The cartridges you use for hunting... what makes you think they are "humane"? How do you think ammunition makers test their products for hunting, except to send people out into the field with guns to test them on live animals? How do you know the bullet that you are using will perform as expected, without actual test data?

 

[the 22 junkie]

The one I shot with my Glock 27 in 40 S&W, 135 gr hp Corbon, really inpressed me. The shot was about 20 yards. The bullet entered the head right below the right eye, traveled through the head, down the spine, and lodged under the skin by the left shoulder blade. The lead core separated from the jacket about 4 inches before the core came to rest. The pig was about 100 lbs and dropped like a stone with no noise or movement. When I relate this story the reply always is "you shot that pig with what?"......chris3

Me and my dad have shot several, using a Ruger Mini-14 (.223) at about 50 yds w/ Remington UMC HP's.
Hitting center mass, dropped the smaller ones like rocks, and some of the larger ones did the thrashing thing. On the animal testing, why isn't PETA railing against the Strasbourg Tests? Is it just because if they don't see it happen, they feel better about it?

 

[hso]

I have to disagree with this statement. Every single one of those pigs was shot in exactly the same place.

GWM,

I must have not been very clear about what I was getting at.

I was responding to ctdonath's personal experience where the shots were CNS and the behaviors he saw in the animals. My point was that the shots taken are body shots and not CNS and his experience, while important, was not directly applicable to the video.

The second point I was making is that the animals in the video are not sufficiently contained nor are the shot angles and distances sufficiently constrained for good data collection. I think verification of theoretical performace of ammunition should include gell block and animal shooting data, but that the animals shot in the vide won't provide very good information to compare to the gell blocks.

The third point was that if this is intended to showcase the destrucive power of their ammunition it does a poor job since the company hype is that a hit from their product almost instantly incapacitates an enemy and we see that the hogs don't drop DRT.

Sorry for not being very clear.

 

[Vex]

Granddad was a butcher, so I know a few things about butchery, too. The biggest lesson is that the faster you kill the animal, the less adrenaline gets int he blood stream and meat, the better the meat is for eating. Not as tough. Killing cows and pigs, they use a giant mallet that kills the animal instantly. Another method is electricity. A third is a guillotine-like contraption. All of these are instant death. There is no "slaughterhouse" purpose for shooting a caged animal.

 

[1911Tuner]

Pigs

As a hunter and meat eater, I was also sickened by these frames. There's a vast difference between slaughter correctly done...putting the lights out with a brain shot...and shooting an animal through the body just to see its reaction and how long it takes it to die. There's also a difference between tying an animal in order to study its agony and terror and taking a buck in open forest.

 

[m0ntels]

*deleted by me cuz I can*

 

[ctdonath]

There is no "slaughterhouse" purpose for shooting a caged animal.

The slaugherhouse I was in dispatched animals with a .22 specially designed for the purpose.

 

[Justin]

Central Texas, you really ought to savor this, because it's probably the one and only time that I will side with the animal rights nutwhacks.

Stan Bulmer is an idiot and his "tests" are needlessly inhumane and yield no useful data.

Even a blind hog finds an acorn once in awhile.

 

[Vex]

The slaugherhouse I was in dispatched animals with a .22 specially designed for the purpose.

How long ago was that? Recent?

I want to specify that what I meant was: There is no "slaughterhouse" purpose for shooting a caged animal in the side of the body and then letting it run around for a while, destroying it's internals, allowing bile and adrenaline to reach the meat, and making an entire portion of the animal unedible.

 

[old4x4]

As a hunter and meat eater, I was also sickened by these frames. There's a vast difference between slaughter correctly done...putting the lights out with a brain shot...and shooting an animal through the body just to see its reaction and how long it takes it to die. There's also a difference between tying an animal in order to study its agony and terror and taking a buck in open forest.

I feel the exact same way. You put it well. I'm not even going to watch the video. I probably don't have the stomach for it...and I'm a hunter! A week ago, I shot a grey squirrel and winged him. As he dragged himself away, I killed him with a second shot. It bothered me that the first shot didn't do him in. Knowingly torturing animals is for the sick.

 

[Biker]

It has been said that you can judge a man's character by the way he treats animals.
I'm a hunter also but draw the line well short of this kind of crap. I won't be doing business with that company.
Biker

 

[gunner03]

As a hunter and meat eater, I was also sickened by these frames. There's a vast difference between slaughter correctly done...putting the lights out with a brain shot...and shooting an animal through the body just to see its reaction and how long it takes it to die. There's also a difference between tying an animal in order to study its agony and terror and taking a buck in open forest.

I agree 100%,But without these kinds of real life tests, how do we find the most effective round? What looks good on paper doesn't always turn out that way. Most deer I have shot have made it just out sight before going down, so I don't see how they react.Looking at the ground tells the story if you care to look, but that's not as conclusive as video. As far as testing military rounds, if it saves a couple of our soldiers, I say test on! This has nothing to do with proper slaughter methods or hunting for that matter. The rounds being tested are combat rounds, and the information could save lives. At least the lives I care about being safe. It's all about the "stopping power" we all want.