Bloomberg at it again...

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OldBrownDog

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Wasn't there a thread on this site (maybe I'm wrong) with a link to ATF seizure stats? Could the seizure percentage/state of origin numbers be checked?

On Wednesday, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg announced that 90 percent of the traceable guns used in crimes committed in New York City in 2011 came from out of state.

Bloomberg had a ready answer for those who might criticize him for meddling in other states’ affairs: “To those who say 'stay out of our state,' our answer is: We'd love to, just as soon as you stop letting guns seep into the black market and get in the hands of criminals who murder our citizens.”

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/20...illegal_guns_yes_virginia_you_re_a_haven.html

The comments on the article make my head hurt...
 
Criminals don't buy guns from legit gun shops. They buy them on the street or steal them from law abiding citizens. Since most guns have been illegal in NYC for a very long time it stands to reason that most are from out of state. This Bloomberg guy is a real genius.
 
Here's a thought, Bloomberg is an illegal gun dealers best friend. They may even be funding his re-elections. Without legal guns to steal, all supplies have to be brought in illegally and pushes up the prices. Now if guns were legal in NYC then the illegal dealers would be out of business.

It seems that Bloomberg learned nothing from Prohibition, NYC was dry back then right (LOLOLOL).

Lucky Luciano did not exist, right. Speakeasy's weren't to be found in the Bronx, Brooklyn or Manhattan. Red Eye was the late train, not something that you drank.

Bloomberg, you have been smoking too much of that Crack you claim does not exist in NYC.

Jim
 
Wasn't there a thread on this site (maybe I'm wrong) with a link to ATF seizure stats? Could the seizure percentage/state of origin numbers be checked?
On Wednesday, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg announced that 90 percent of the traceable guns used in crimes committed in New York City in 2011 came from out of state.

I would say that statement is probably true, as it is stated, just that the whole truth is not revealed for shock value. Let's analyze this....

First - 90% of the TRACEABLE guns.... every gun that was legally manufactured since 1968 is "traceable" when the Federal Gun Control Act (GCA) was passed, at least from the manufacturer to the first retail sale from an FFL.

Second - and here's the kicker. For that statement to be false, what paperwork does exist on that gun would have to never show it leaving the state of New York. So....

a) It would have to be manufactured in New York AND
b) It would have to be sent to distributors only in New York AND
c) It would have to be sent from the distributor to an FFL in New York AND
d) The gun could never have left New York via any legal transfer of ownership to other than a New York resident.

How many guns in New York City since 1968 can meet that pedigree requirement? Any gun not meeting that pedigree did, in fact, come from out of state in some manner. Which, we know, is completely meaningless when that fact is being used in the context in which it is.

In addition, it is for the exact same reasons that the Federal government claims they can regulate the same 90% of all guns - because there are almost no guns that have never "moved in or affected interstate or foreign commerce".
 
Why do folks in NYC buy illegal guns? Isn't it against the law?

They should stop doing that.
 
It is my understanding that much (if not most) of the so called "gun violence" in NYC is related in some way to the illegal drug trade. Also more then 90% of these substances also come from out-of-state or even out-of country. :what:

Should not His Honor now start something called Mayors Against Illegal Drugs? :rolleyes:
 
Is it the gun or is it the NYC criminal who is to blame?
He's not tall enough to look into the mirror to see it's his citizens who break the law, not the guns from out-of-state. I guess if they can't get a gun they become model citizens?
 
Second - and here's the kicker. For that statement to be false, what paperwork does exist on that gun would have to never show it leaving the state of New York. So....

a) It would have to be manufactured in New York AND
b) It would have to be sent to distributors only in New York AND
c) It would have to be sent from the distributor to an FFL in New York AND
d) The gun could never have left New York via any legal transfer of ownership to other than a New York resident.

How many guns in New York City since 1968 can meet that pedigree requirement? Any gun not meeting that pedigree did, in fact, come from out of state in some manner. Which, we know, is completely meaningless when that fact is being used in the context in which it is.

It's worse than that. In all actuality, if the trace was not initiated in the same state that the firearm was originally sold at retail in then it's considered to be "trafficked" by His Excellency.

From MAIG's report (http://www.tracetheguns.org/report.pdf, page 7):
When a gun is recovered from a crime scene, law enforcement can ask ATF to initiate a trace to identify the gun dealer who first sold the gun and the person who bought it. In the process, ATF identifies the state where the gun was first sold at retail (“source state”) and the state where the crime gun was recovered at a crime scene (“recovery state”).

In 2009, of the 238,107 guns that were recovered at crime scenes in the U.S. and submitted for tracing, ATF successfully identified the source states for 145,321 traced guns – or 61% of the attempted traces.

Interesting. So when Bloomberg claims 90% are from out of state he's really talking about 90% of 61%, gee this is starting to sound like Mexico all over again ...

He's not even 100% correct on the 90% claim, as we see at https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/f...s/tracedata-2012/2012-trace-data-new-york.pdf on page 7. The ATF PIDed the "source state" on 4,850 traces, of those 1,552 were from inside NY. I guess his Excellency isn't the best at math (that's 32% of traces being from inside NY).

The reason I put "source state" in quotations is that pesky definition: "the gun dealer who first sold the gun and the person who bought it". In other words if someone moved, if they sold it later on (even through a 01 FFL), heck if they died and left it to an out of state relative in their will ... well that's a "trafficked" gun according to MAIG.

There's also this (https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/f...s/tracedata-2012/2012-trace-data-new-york.pdf, page 2):
(1) Firearm traces are designed to assist las enforcement authorities in conducting investigations by tracking the sale and possession of specific firearms. Law enforcement agencies may request firearms traces for any reason, and those reasons are not necessarily reported to the Federal Government. Not all firearms used in crime are traced, and not all firearms traced are used in crime.

(2) Firearms selected for tracing are not chosen for purposes of determining which types, makes, or models of firearms are used for illicit purposes. The firearms selected do not constitutes a random sample and should not be considered representative of the larger universe of all firearms used by criminals, or any subset of that universe. Firearms are normally traced to the first retail seller, and sources reported for firearms traced do not necessarily represent the sources or methods by which firearms in general are acquired for use in crime.

These ATF trace reports are where MAIG are getting their numbers from. The ATF states right at the top of the report for each individual state though that not only are these not exactly 'crime guns', they're not even a representative sample.

You'll notice on page 6 of the ATF stats that the vast majority of these traces were possession charges, firearm under investigation, found firearm, drug charges, etc. Only 238 of the traces were related to firearms being sold (the ATF doesn't state it explicitly, but I'd assume they mean illegally sold), 209 assaults, 184 robberies, and 95 homicides.

The average 'Time to Crime' was 13.9 years (page 8) on these traces. Taken together with the stat that most of these traces were related to possession, and that 'out of state' means it wasn't originally sold at retail in NY; I don't think I'm going very far out on a limb if I guess that an awful lot of these "trafficked" guns fall under something similar to the following scenario: guy buys a shotgun in one state, later moves, decides to make a little extra cash by growing and/or dealing weed, the cops raid his place, find that shotgun in the closet, and send the serial # in to the ATF for a trace. Voila, we have a "trafficked" gun.
 
Bloomberg is simply an exibitionist, and feeds off the power of his position and his wealth.

His exposure is his drug of choice , and he will do and say anything to remain relevent in his quest. He is more sick than stupid but yet far from an above average intelligence.
 
Out of all the stuff that Bloomberg has spewed, I find this little stat buried in his 'Trace the Guns' rather interesting:

http://www.tracetheguns.org/report.pdf, page 7
In 2009, of the 238,107 guns that were recovered at crime scenes in the U.S. and submitted for tracing, ATF successfully identified the source states for 145,321 traced guns – or 61% of the attempted traces.

Where did the other 39% come from? That's a pretty hefty percentage of all traces submitted by local LE. Maybe people are filing off serial #s like in the movies, but then LE wouldn't submit it for a trace in the first place. Are there really that many pre-1968 GCA guns out there?

And/or is there a lot more of this: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ns-us-china-relationship-chinese-manufactured going on?
 
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