Bloomberg's firesale and terrorist loopholes

[apocryph]

I posted this in the other [Bloomberg in Wall Street Journal](http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4656703#post4656703) thread, where it was apparently OT, so here's a new thread for my question.

Mayor Bloomberg of NYC got an editorial printed in the Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121478283640414407.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries) in which he re-iterates his gun-grabbing agenda, swaddled in the usual "common sense" rhetoric.

Mostly it's the usual stuff, but two of his wish list items were not familiar to me. Here's my post from the other thread:

I read this opinion piece yesterday, and found myself uttering the usual Bloomy-related expletives. However, he did mention two gun-grabber agenda items I am not familiar with. While I'm sure they're specious and misrepresented, I'm still curious what he's talking about. They are:

- End gun-dealer fire sales. If the federal government shuts down gun dealers for selling illegally, it nevertheless allows those dealers to sell off their inventory without conducting the background checks that it normally requires them to do. Imagine if a liquor store was shut down for selling to minors. Would anyone support a policy that would allow the owner to sell off all the remaining liquor without checking IDs? Of course not.

and

- Close the "terror gap." If the federal government can prevent a potentially dangerous person from getting on a plane, shouldn't it also be able to prevent that person from buying guns? Last year, the Bush administration endorsed a bill that will close the terror gap. Congress should make it law this year.

The first one, gun dealer "fire sales", seems very inconsistent with what I've heard of the way BATFE conducts itself with FFLs. Is what Bloomy says true (well, I'm sure it isn't, but you know what I mean)?

The second one, "terror gap", is so light on details and so heavy on scare tactics it can only be a brazen attack on gun rights, but what exactly is it? It's not the gun show "loophole", as that was the first item on his nanny-statist wish list. Surely he's not suggesting anyone on the no-fly list goes into NICS, is he? Or should I shut up lest he get more ideas...

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[CypherNinja]

The first one, gun dealer "fire sales", seems very inconsistent with what I've heard of the way BATFE conducts itself with FFLs. Is what Bloomy says true (well, I'm sure it isn't, but you know what I mean)?

Ten bucks says the VAST majority going out of business inventory gets sold to places like CDNN.

The second one, "terror gap", is so light on details and so heavy on scare tactics it can only be a brazen attack on gun rights, but what exactly is it? It's not the gun show "loophole", as that was the first item on his nanny-statist wish list. Surely he's not suggesting anyone on the no-fly list goes into NICS, is he? Or should I shut up lest he get more ideas...

That's exactly what he's suggesting. The same system that generates SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND false positives a year and also contains the names of something like 500,000 people who probably aren't terrorists.

 

[ceetee]

The first one, gun dealer "fire sales", seems very inconsistent with what I've heard of the way BATFE conducts itself with FFLs. Is what Bloomy says true (well, I'm sure it isn't, but you know what I mean)?

I've never heard of such a thing. Time for some Google-fu...

Haven't found anything yet.

Okay, according to Mayors Against Illegal Guns , if a gun shop has it's license revoked, all the guns that are still owned by the license-holder become the private property of that person (now a private individual). As a private individual, he can sell those guns without requiring a background check. Sounds kinda iffy, because I would think that he would have to transfer all the guns to himself on forms 4473 - hard to do if his license was revoked. They do cite two whole examples of this very thing happening... one from 2005 and one from 2007.

 

[Master Blaster]

The ATF does sometimes allow a dealer to liquidate stock when they are shut down, congress passed a law ordering them to do this after numerous complaints from corporate shareholders who had their assets seized because an individual FFL running the store had to forfeit his license.

This is done in compliance with all federal laws, so Bloomberg is full of Manure.

 

[ceetee]

Huh. Every source I checked out that listed gun dealers having "fire sales" involved "Mayors Against..." yada yada yada...

 

[apocryph]

That's exactly what he's suggesting. The same system that generates SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND false positives a year and also contains the names of something like 500,000 people who probably aren't terrorists.

This is the first I've heard of that suggestion. If he truly is suggesting dumping the No Fly List into NICS, and the Bush Administration endorsed such a bill last year, I can't believe I haven't heard about it on the various gun boards.

I looked around the MAIG site a bit more and found this at http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/federal/closing_gun_gap.shtml:

* The Lautenberg - King bill (S. 1237 / H.R. 2074): Gives DOJ discretion to block sales to persons identified as terror suspects.
o DOJ would have discretion to allow particular gun purchases by suspects to proceed so as not to tip off the suspect.
o These DOJ determinations would be subject to judicial review.
o Once DOJ made such a determination, the buyer could not:
+ Purchase a gun, because they would fail instant background checks;
+ Possess a gun, if they knew about the determination;
+ Hold a license to deal guns; or
+ Receive or possess explosives or work for a licensed explosives dealer.
o The Bush Administration and its Justice Department support the bill.
o The House anti-gang bill (H.R. 3547): A bipartisan anti-gang bill now pending in the House also includes similar provisions to close the terror gap.

So they're not talking about dumping the No Fly List into NICS, they're suggesting giving DOJ to classify an individual as a terror suspect and thus block them from buying guns. Sounds like it's an invitation to abuse.

The "fire sale" thing I found at http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/federal/dealer_firesales.shtml . As ceetee and Master Blaster already noted, apparently dealers are permitted to transfer their business inventory to a personal collection upon license revocation. I had no idea that was the case, but now that I know, I'm pretty sure I'll still be able to sleep at night. After all, if Bloomy opposes it, how bad can it really be?

 

[TallPine]

So they're not talking about dumping the No Fly List into NICS, they're suggesting giving DOJ to classify an individual as a terror suspect and thus block them from buying guns. Sounds like it's an invitation to abuse.

Denial of due process is what it is

 

[TexasRifleman]

The first one, gun dealer "fire sales", seems very inconsistent with what I've heard of the way BATFE conducts itself with FFLs. Is what Bloomy says true (well, I'm sure it isn't, but you know what I mean)?

No that does not happen, he's frankly just making that one up.

What can happen is these FFLs can sell large quantities to other dealers, bypassing the "so many a year" or "so many a week" stuff and bloomy is just looking for something to grab headlines.

Close the "terror gap." If the federal government can prevent a potentially dangerous person from getting on a plane, shouldn't it also be able to prevent that person from buying guns? Last year, the Bush administration endorsed a bill that will close the terror gap. Congress should make it law this year.

Yes, they did such a good job of keeping them off planes in September '01 didn't they?

Yeah that whole "mind reading for future crimes" technology is working well.

 

[Rachen]

What is Bloomberg going to propose next?
- Everybody who opposes him is to be sent to relocation camps, or something?

Seriously, he is not fooling anyone, not even in NYC anymore. A lot of folks here who are previously extremely anti gun and pro big government are waking up now, and starting to spit back out all the crap the media has been feeding them lately. Thanks for the Internet.

 

[Seenterman]

WTH!? How can you classify someone as a terror suspect? What types of behaviors or actions would this person have to do to be classified as a terror suspect? Ok and why are terror suspects running around free!? Shouldn't they be arrested if the DOJ suspects that there criminals?? Or is it they just cant meet the burden of proof to arrest yet so they can deny you a gun and keep you in semi-libery limbo? Seriously What the ****!? If you think someones a terrorist you better have a damn good reason and not because he checked out a book on radical islam from his local library. You cant just classify someone as a terror suspect, say they are untrustworthy enough that they cant purchase a firearm and then LEAVE them on the streets! Also it is my understanding in this current political situation is that terror suspects = terrorist = enemy combatant = no civil liberties. So do people on this list enjoy other civil liberties and freedoms provided by our Bill of Rights or are
all those other pesky amendments are now null and void for those citizens on the list?

Im trying to keep the tin foil hat in the closet but this just seems like a very slippery slope.

 

[Picard]

Just more trigger words to add to the pile: "assault weapons", "rapid fire", "cop killer", "sniper rifle" and my favorite...

Mayor Daley said:

Many times they're outgunned, to be very frank. When they come to a scene, someone has a semi fully-automatic weapon and you have a little pistol, uh, good luck."

Yup, now it's semi fully-automatic. What will they think of next?

 

[Rachen]

Both Bloomberg and Daley are mall ninjas. Overmagnifying situations, fearmongering, there you have it. And whats worse, they want the population disarmed, while their police forces have unlimited access to fully automatic weapons.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Yup, now it's semi fully-automatic. What will they think of next?

Wonder if those fall under NFA? Might have to get me one.......Honest Mr ATF agent, it's not fully automatic ALL the time