trickyasafox
Member
for those of you who put a bob in your car and live in cold weather, how do you keep your water from freezing?
BOB question for cold climate
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NineseveN
member
trickyasafox said:
Put booze in it.
j/k, I actualy let it freeze as it never seemed to be a huge problem for me. I can still drink it and warm it up enough to melt and get the water moving enough to keep me hydrated, but I am sure there are better solutions.
Optical Serenity
Member
I don't keep very much water in the car. I typically keep one nalgene bottle about 85% full.
I figure I can get to water and use purification tools...
I figure I can get to water and use purification tools...
i always keep at least a case of bottled water in all my vehicles. it does freeze in TN, although not often and not like the yankee freezes, but for whatever reason, i've never had a bottle crack. (they're all plastic)
overnight, my car's always in the garage, so that solves that. if i was outside overnight... i guess it would be an issue
overnight, my car's always in the garage, so that solves that. if i was outside overnight... i guess it would be an issue
Devonai
Member
It's impossible to prevent this time of year. I would either hope for a sunny day and put my canteens in direct sunlight, or wait until I'm on the move and put my one-quart between my parka and polarfleece. If the tactical situation allows I'd build a fire then make sure the one-quart stays close to my body after it's thawed.
carebear
Member
Body heat will melt it whether you are still or moving.
Also, assuming conditions allow the time and safety, you should have a stove or the means and ability to build a fire always available in a cold weather environment. If I'm leaving town I have a fuel bottle and my full tri-fuel stove and about 3 or 4 fire starters (matches, pressurized lighter, Bic lighter and flint/steel). I can melt snow or ice in the stove lid.
If you have a vehicle CW survival is a joke. You have room for all the equipment and supplies and clothing you'd ever need.
It's moving on foot that causes problems and hard choices.
Also, assuming conditions allow the time and safety, you should have a stove or the means and ability to build a fire always available in a cold weather environment. If I'm leaving town I have a fuel bottle and my full tri-fuel stove and about 3 or 4 fire starters (matches, pressurized lighter, Bic lighter and flint/steel). I can melt snow or ice in the stove lid.
If you have a vehicle CW survival is a joke. You have room for all the equipment and supplies and clothing you'd ever need.
It's moving on foot that causes problems and hard choices.
ctdonath
Member
Another bump on: let it freeze.
Up north I kept a case of 0.5L water bottles in the car at all times - convenient size for when I wanted a drink, every bottle was fresh & sealed, and if they froze they just bulged a bit. Never had one crack.
Up north I kept a case of 0.5L water bottles in the car at all times - convenient size for when I wanted a drink, every bottle was fresh & sealed, and if they froze they just bulged a bit. Never had one crack.
palerider1
member
i keep a case of bottled water in my car too. when it freezes in the winter it usually thaws out quickley and is always cold.
What is BOB kit?
I live in the PNW, I just keep a coffee cup in my car, roll down the window and scoop plenty of rain out of the sky to fill my cup...haha, just kidding. But the way it's raining this winter, I could leave it on my car roof for a night and have plenty this winter.
What does BOB mean? Naive question, but I still could not figure it out from reading the threads.
Just leave an air pocket at the top of your container so the water can expand as it freezes. A flexible plastic container (like a Dasani bottle or similar) will take being frozen no problem. If it's a big concern, use a few small ones too so they can thaw faster against body heat or dash defroster when needed.
jeepmor
Bug out bag, okay, I get it, thanks. I've had these for years, but it was always just quick camping gear stash. I've packed my bag and left in 10 minutes before from scratch and left for 4 days camping. If I want to go faster, I'd just leave the pack full I suppose. Don't really see needing something for anything quicker, but I should stock more niceties for this slant in my car.
I live in the PNW, I just keep a coffee cup in my car, roll down the window and scoop plenty of rain out of the sky to fill my cup...haha, just kidding. But the way it's raining this winter, I could leave it on my car roof for a night and have plenty this winter.
What does BOB mean? Naive question, but I still could not figure it out from reading the threads.
Just leave an air pocket at the top of your container so the water can expand as it freezes. A flexible plastic container (like a Dasani bottle or similar) will take being frozen no problem. If it's a big concern, use a few small ones too so they can thaw faster against body heat or dash defroster when needed.
jeepmor
Bug out bag, okay, I get it, thanks. I've had these for years, but it was always just quick camping gear stash. I've packed my bag and left in 10 minutes before from scratch and left for 4 days camping. If I want to go faster, I'd just leave the pack full I suppose. Don't really see needing something for anything quicker, but I should stock more niceties for this slant in my car.
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ctdonath
Member
BOB = Bug Out Bag ... when SHTF and you have to leave right now, you grab your BOB and it has enough survival gear in it to satisfy your particular "gotta leave now" scenario.
If the weather is cold enough to freeze bottled water I wouldn't worry about it; as long as it is in plastic bottles let it freeze. When on the move, just turn your heater on high, the blower on and the foot well vents open - and put the bottle right there in the footwell. It will be thawed before you know it. If it gets too hot inside, open a window.
Make sure you have a small container to hold soe water on the move, along with a good water purifier or filter and sterilization tablets in case you have to break out on foot.
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Make sure you have a small container to hold soe water on the move, along with a good water purifier or filter and sterilization tablets in case you have to break out on foot.
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AStone
Member
thawing it out
in the past, when i've had to deal with the potential of frozen water,
it was above 11000' in the NE mts of NM.
Up here, i live on the west side of the cascades,
down lower.
so far, hasn't been an issue.
in case it become one (ice in the canteen, that is),
here's what i'd do:
1) keep water container in sleeping bag {since freezing is really only an issue at night here}
2) if forget #1, build fire, set canteen nearby
3) if 2 is not possible: light whisperlight stove, boil small quantity of water (from anywhere), pour on top of canteen contents; pour all back into stove pot; iterate.
4) better yet, if it's that cold, just melt snow
Nem
in the past, when i've had to deal with the potential of frozen water,
it was above 11000' in the NE mts of NM.
Up here, i live on the west side of the cascades,
down lower.
so far, hasn't been an issue.
in case it become one (ice in the canteen, that is),
here's what i'd do:
1) keep water container in sleeping bag {since freezing is really only an issue at night here}
2) if forget #1, build fire, set canteen nearby
3) if 2 is not possible: light whisperlight stove, boil small quantity of water (from anywhere), pour on top of canteen contents; pour all back into stove pot; iterate.
4) better yet, if it's that cold, just melt snow
Nem
rwc
Member
Unless you live in a desert area you don't need to carry much water, but you may want a small stove & pot as Nem suggests so you can melt what you find. Don't forget that changing phase states (liquid-solid-liquid) doesn't kill the nasty pathogens that can be found in water, but a quick boil will.
I would have to strongly disagree.rwc said:
Even in temperatures above freezing, with very low humidity it is easy to dehydrate when very active.
When the air temperature is below freezing with very low humidity, a person can dehydrate fast - especially under exertion and more so when solar radiation tends to have a warming effect on the body.
When dehydrated, the body is then more suspeptible to hypothermia, as dehydration will affect digestion and general metabolism.
Many a winter climber or skier has learned this the hard way - or not lived to tell about it.
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NineseveN
member
LAK is right, you're fooling yourself if you think you don't need a lot of water. You can be "underhydrated" from just one day without enough water. You don't think about it because normally you have access to liquid whenever you want. It's in our foods, our drinks other than water (duh). I carry 128 ounces of fresh water in my BoB, and a case in my car...64ounces per day is ideal, you can get by with maybe half to 2/3 of that per day. Of all the screw-ups I see in BoB prep, not enough water is the most common.
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trickyasafox
Member
thanks for all the replies!
AStone
Member
Good point.LAK said:
A related point: much of water loss that occurs when ambient temp is below freezing results from sweating during exertion.
This is dangerous for two reasons: 1) accelerates dehydration (topic of this thread); 2) can lead to hypothermia.
A volume of water can hold roughly 20 times more heat than the same volume of air. If your skin is wet (and worse, your clothes), then you're going to lose a HUGE amount of heat. (That's the basic principle behind evaporative cooling via sweating: evaporating water with heat dissipates hugely more heat than otherwise.)
Like LAK notes, mountaineers & explorers in the polar regions know to keep their inner layers dry. Do every thing you can to avoid 'breaking a sweat'. To sweat in sub zero temps is to die unless you've got a woodstove nearby, or some dry clothes to get into very fast upon stopping activity.
Of course, avoiding sweat also retards the advance of dehydration.
Nem
rwc
Member
To clarify - I wasn't encouraging a lack of hydration, merely suggesting that carrying water isn't always necessary in winter, but a stove is.
For the record, I've escorted a dehydrated climber off the summit of Mt. Rainier, short-roped down the std. route.
For the record, I've escorted a dehydrated climber off the summit of Mt. Rainier, short-roped down the std. route.
AStone
Member
Gotcha.rwc said:
Actually, I never questioned your paragraph above, just agreeing with LAK that hydration is as necessary in winter as in summer.
I'd even go a step further, specially for those who hang out on Rainer and other big mountains: you can do without a full of supply of water in winter - carrying only what you need for between breakfast and lunch or lunch and dinner - IF you've got a stove to melt it. For lunch and dinner, the stove's going to be out any way for soup, etc. You can melt more then.
And in fact, sometimes, carrying the stove with minimal water beats carrying a LOT of water. Just melt it when you need it.
Nem
A stove is fine - if there is snow and/or ice around. It depends what geographical area you are in of course. Water is indeed very heavy; but a few gallons in a vehicle is not going to cut your gas mileage by much, and if you find yourself on foot it will get lighter quickly as you consume it.
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rwc
Member
While it does take a good knowledge of the water available on your route, I can speak from many painful miles that for me it has often been more efficient to carry less water, and stop to filter or melt, than it is hump a gallon of more.
If you are going to store water in winter it's worth leaving a decent air space in the container and drying out the threads of the bottle and the cap before sealing a bottle you think might freeze. They're a LOT easier to open.
Nem is right about sleeping with your water if you can. A good trick is to have a Nalgene or two and insulated bottle covers. The last thing you do before crashing is melt what you need, get it to a boil, fill the bottle, dry the threads, seal it tight, cover it, and drop it into your bag. Toasty!
While I'm a fan of Camelback hydration systems in general I've never felt bold enough to risk sleeping with one...
If you are going to store water in winter it's worth leaving a decent air space in the container and drying out the threads of the bottle and the cap before sealing a bottle you think might freeze. They're a LOT easier to open.
Nem is right about sleeping with your water if you can. A good trick is to have a Nalgene or two and insulated bottle covers. The last thing you do before crashing is melt what you need, get it to a boil, fill the bottle, dry the threads, seal it tight, cover it, and drop it into your bag. Toasty!
While I'm a fan of Camelback hydration systems in general I've never felt bold enough to risk sleeping with one...
carebear
Member
I usually tried to drain mine prior to sleeping, or put the excess in the nalgene. I slept with it empty so it wouldn't freeze nor leak.
AStone
Member
thermos
And since you mentioned that, I'll add one more related suggestion re insulation.
Years ago, when doing high altitude winter packing in NM, I bought (at the recommendation of a mountaineering article I read) an all steel thermos bottle. Not one of the little cheapo plastic ones, but a real all steel one, where insulation is a vacuum between inner & outer wall.
Like RWC says, last thing before sleepville, boil water. Pour a bit in to heat the inside, then pour that into your cup as a last shot of something warm before sleep. (I usually add a spot of honey to it.) Then, fill the thermos with the remaining hot water (leaving a 1/2" or so at the top). Sometimes I add a tea bag, but mostly not.
Put that into an insulation bag, and wrap that in a fleece pullover. (The better metal thermos bottles have a double screw top: a screw in plug AND a screw on cap that serves as a tiny built in cup. That doubles your leak protection.)
Now, in the morning, even before you roll out of the bag, without having to crank up your stove to boil, you've got hot water for tea & oatmeal.
Best investment for water I ever made (shy of a good filter).
Nem
So true.rwc said:
And since you mentioned that, I'll add one more related suggestion re insulation.
Years ago, when doing high altitude winter packing in NM, I bought (at the recommendation of a mountaineering article I read) an all steel thermos bottle. Not one of the little cheapo plastic ones, but a real all steel one, where insulation is a vacuum between inner & outer wall.
Like RWC says, last thing before sleepville, boil water. Pour a bit in to heat the inside, then pour that into your cup as a last shot of something warm before sleep. (I usually add a spot of honey to it.) Then, fill the thermos with the remaining hot water (leaving a 1/2" or so at the top). Sometimes I add a tea bag, but mostly not.
Put that into an insulation bag, and wrap that in a fleece pullover. (The better metal thermos bottles have a double screw top: a screw in plug AND a screw on cap that serves as a tiny built in cup. That doubles your leak protection.)
Now, in the morning, even before you roll out of the bag, without having to crank up your stove to boil, you've got hot water for tea & oatmeal.
Best investment for water I ever made (shy of a good filter).
Nem
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