Boldly Running Away (again)

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Cosmoline

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Los Anchorage
I'll toss this incident out for critque. I'm personally torn on the matter.

Yesterday was extremely wet and rainy in Anchorage. Visibility was not great, and I was on my bike as usual. I decided to get off the roads and cut through town on the Chester Creek greenbelt that runs east-west from the Chugach to the inlet. There's a nice bike path along it. It was pretty much abandoned by two legged creatures, and I saw nobody for several miles until I passed a couple in rain gear headed towards their car in a parking lot off the trail. I passed them, went through two tunnels under a major road and started my ascent into downtown.

Then I heard a series of what might have been seven .22LR rounds going off somewhere behind me. Or they might have been blanks. But the sound and timing of them seemed like a firearm, not just fireworks. However, with two busy highways over my head between me and the sound and with the rain enhancing the noise from the car tires it was extremely difficult to pinpoint where the noise came from or exactly what it was.

As it happened I had shifted my Colt from my soaking wet pants to my bike trunk, a fact I cursed while I dug through the junk to find the revolver. I retreived it, set my bike down and walked back a bit down the trail to listen. Nothing. No sound. I thought for a moment if I should boldly go down and see if someone had been hurt, but hearing nothing I figured it was a) nothing but a someone firing blanks or b) a misheard sound. I also thought that I would be pretty ineffectual poking around along a very exposed trail with about 100 hiding places along either side of it. And the threat level was not so great that I could pull my revolver. So I just had a hand on it in pocket, with wet glasses and limited visibility. I poked around but ultimately heeded my own advice and boldly ran away.

Should I have gone back? At what point would that have even been possible? Hearing a struggle? A cry for help? Do you *ever* go back and try to help? I can see arguments for that.

Times like that really highlight how useful it would be to have a rifle. And sometimes I do have one, but not all the time.
 
Assuming you have no duty to intervene:
Even if it were shots, it may have been benign. If it were malignant, you would be at a significant disadvantage if you went back to investigate. If you are really concerned, call the police and report what you heard. Then continue on. Otherwise, just continue on. In short... what you did.
And we shall call you... Sir Robin.
 
Hi Cosmo,
I have to agree; tactically, since you couldn't see what had happened, if anything, it was best to go on your way. In some jurisdictions, if you are moving toward i.e. in the direction of a 'situation', you might be considered an aggressor.
Best,
Rob
 
I'd say you did fine. You did nothing wrong. Heard no cries for help.
The basic mindset of CCW is that you are not looking for trouble. You are just ready for it.
 
You did the right thing.

Let's say there was a gunman along the trail. You would be at a severe disadvantage to turn back.

You had no reason to draw your weapon, so if you did meet a potential aggressor, you would be at a disadvantage to start with.

At best you should have kept riding and called the police.
 
Run Run Run away....Live to run another day.

No reason to go scouting for potential trouble on this one. Unless you have a dog in the fight the vast majority of the time the right idea is the simplest one. Just keep on moving.
 
A rifle still wouldn't have helped much. How would you decide someone was a target (ie a real and present danger to you personally--a threat)at rifle distance? Leaving was the right thing. Reporting the sound of gunshots to the law would be reasonable.
 
If on foot, it's the Nike Defense.

If in a motor vehicle, it's the Michelin Defense.

If on a bike, it's the (insert bike brand here) defense.

No reason to second- guess yourself, IMHO you did the right thing. Did you have a cell phone with you (assuming there's service in the area)? With any sign of something really wrong (yelling, screaming, more shots etc.), the thing to do would have been to call it in. Going back on your previously travelled route while out in public, and poking into a questionable situation that does not directly involve you or someone you are responsible for, shouldn't be high on your list of things to do.

lpl/nc
 
It seems to me that you handled everything well. You really never know unless you try, right? That being said, based on your description, I don't know what else you should have done.

As for your question:
Do you *ever* go back and try to help?

I know many people will say run, or don't ever get involved, etc... etc... I think that all depends on the situation and most people legally carrying guns are smart enough to evaluate whether or not a situation calls for action.

Nobody with 1/2 a brain ever goes looking for trouble, but I can think of numerous situations where I feel it would warrant "going back", or "trying to help". I don't want to offend anyone, because it is a personal choice for everyone anytime they get involved in a situation that includes a firearm, but the thing that amazes me is the number of people that take the position of not doing anything.

I think to myself what if I was the person in trouble and needed help, whether it was a cougar or a 2 legged animal causing me problems. What if it was my wife or anyone else for that matter that needed help? I know I'll get the usual responses on this, "that is what the police are for," but I can't help but think if you can help, you should. I might add every situation is different and that is why it is up to the discretion of each individual.

It wasn't more than 2 or 3 months ago in Detroit where that old man was getting car jacked and beaten by the criminal and there were 5 or 6 people watching from 50 feet away. They did nothing and this was all caught on film. I hate to judge them and yes they are all still alive today, but they didn't even yell or approach the criminal. Sad society we live in.

JMHO
 
Sir Robin

Just chiming in to concur - unwise to go further back to investigate. Best to call it in and move away.


And to add: :D

And we shall call you... Sir Robin.

Bravely bold Sir Robin
Rode forth from Camelot.
He was not afraid to die,
Oh brave Sir Robin.
He was not at all afraid
To be killed in nasty ways.
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Robin.

He was not in the least bit scared
To be mashed into a pulp.
Or to have his eyes gouged out,
And his elbows broken.
To have his kneecaps split
And his body burned away,
And his limbs all hacked and mangled
Brave Sir Robin.

His head smashed in
And his heart cut out
And his liver removed
And his bowls unplugged
And his nostrils raped

And his bottom burnt off
And his pen--

"That's... that's enough music for now lads"

Brave Sir Robin ran away.
("No!")
Bravely ran away away.
("I didn't!")
When danger reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
("no!")
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
("I didn't!")
And gallantly he chickened out.

****Bravely**** taking ("I never did!") to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat.
("all lies!")
Bravest of the braaaave, Sir Robin!
("I never!")


Lest anyone wonder what the heck all that is, the lyrics are from one of the funniest films of all time, Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
 
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You weren't 100% sure it was gunshots, you are not a LEO, you didn't really know what had happened if anything, you didn't hear anyone or anything calling out for help? No you did the right thing. Sound has a way of being funny about how far the sound was or wasn't from you or what direction it came from. Now I am sure a board Rambo will think not only should you have returned but carried a rifle, shotgun and flamethrower and shot, burned or nuked anything in your path but not me.
 
Times like that really highlight how useful it would be to have a rifle.

Times like what?

I was just imagining if there had been a clear call for help or sound of a serious struggle, there was me with a damp handgun. As it turned out it was probably nothing more than a trick of noise echoing from the highway above. But if it *HAD* been some attack I would have been in the difficult position of chosing whether to leave or make the tactically unsound choice of going towards trouble, and doing it with a little wee short gun. If I"m going towards trouble, I'd like a rifle ready to fire up on my shoulder. Well actually I'd like an M-1 tank and air support.
 
Jeez, I'm kind of scared. I sometimes hit old trails to plink in the woods (stumps / dirt mounds to catch the lead). I'd hate to think someone would purposely come looking for me with guns drawn :uhoh:.
 
I think its best to only react to trouble if it come right at you, not to some possible problem down the road and out of sight. I have always seen the CCW as a tool that allows one a better chance to get away from and survive trouble.

There are some exceptions of course, like if you actually see a violent crime happen right in front of you, well yeah it seems like the right thing at that point to do something.

Like that poor girl who got bum rushed in the target parking lot during broad day light pushed into her car and later murdered by her attacker. I think any one who saw something like that would try to help if they could.

However I don't think its wise or any ones job but the police to go and investigate possible problems. There is a very real chance you could also end up a victim and the BG getting away clean.

Getting away and calling the police to report suspicious activity is the right thing to do.


~Dig
 
I believe that I have a moral obligation to protect myself and my loved ones. If I can protect others from a safe position, I will do that, too. Otherwise, I can't justify risking my life (making my wife a widow and my children fatherless).

I believe that a decision to extend your personal zone of protection to cover strangers, at risk to yourself, is also morally acceptable. Perhaps it is even preferrable to the position that I have taken. Cops make this choice when they choose to strap on the badge. I applaud them for it.

Each of us who carry deadly weapons has to decide who we are willing to protect, and under what circumstances we will risk our lives to do this. Cosmoline, I would propose to you that perhaps once you've established your own rules of engagement, you'll no longer be "...torn on the matter...".
 
You did the right thing.
For all you know it could have been a LEO firing those shots. I sure wouldn't want to pop up on an officer of the law with my 1911 ready to roll.
 
Do you *ever* go back and try to help?

If I heard a cry for help I would probably go back. If I called for help I would like someone to answer and I'm not going to ask anyone to do something I wouldn't.
 
Superior martial arts defensive move:

The Horizon Block.

If you put the horizon between you and your opponent, he cannot hurt you ... unless he is using extremely heavy artillery.
 
I think its best to only react to trouble if it come right at you, not to some possible problem down the road and out of sight. I have always seen the CCW as a tool that allows one a better chance to get away from and survive trouble.

Just chiming in to concur - unwise to go further back to investigate. Best to call it in and move away.

Run Run Run away....Live to run another day.

Guys, I just picked a few of the responses that I have read so far, and I am not trying to offend or cause a fight. That being said, I have to respectfully disagree, this kind of attitude really bothers me. I'm not saying that everyone needs to play cop and needs to involve themselves in every situation, but let's be serious. I don't care if you have a pistol, a shotgun, or a rifle, if you hear screams, gun shots, or some other unnatural sounds going on, don't you think you should at least check it out on a peripheral level?

I already mentioned in an earlier post that if I was the person being attacked by an animal, a human, or humans and there was somebody near me, especially a person that was armed, and they did nothing to help, that would kind of suck. I don't want to say everyone has an actual responsibility to help others, but seriously, how can people just let bad things happen to others.

In the end, and I will admit this is rather callous, I think it would be justified if it was people that wouldn't be willing to help others that had those types of scenarios happen to them. Think about it, for someone that isn't willing to step up and help a fellow human being, turnabout is fair play, and rightfully it would be the same type of person around that could help when you are in trouble, but they decide it isn't worth it to help those in need. Because if you aren't willing to help someone else that may be in a bad way, why should someone go out of their way to help you?

Like I said, I'm not saying everyone needs to be Rambo or act like they are on the SWAT team, but I think it is reasonable to think that if a person is paying attention and uses caution, they can at least check a situation out and then decide what actions to take from there.
 
You seem to be okay so it sounds good. A successful patrol is one that everyone returns safe and sound from.

Supposing a worst case scenario and ''I'' had to go back and figure out what was going on the last thing I would have done was approached from the path I had just departed the area on. Even the dumbest bad guy would be watching and waiting to see if you came back that way. Better to get eyes on the area, figure out what is going on and then approach from an unexpected direction if needed. This isn't rocket science.

But I wouldn't go there unless I had to. Certainly not if I can push three little buttons and have someone else do it for me.
 
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