bolt action vs semi-auto: what questions do I need to be asking myself?

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Grey_Mana

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Have a Marlin 60 for practice.
Want a rifle in a higher caliber for deer hunting and (just in case) home defense.

What are the questions I need to ask myself, to figure out which I want? Any links to relevant threads/sites appreciated.
 
Wow, am I going to catch heat over this one...just get a bolt-action. They are in ALL ways better than a semi-auto for hunting. There are some semi-auto exceptions, but they still aren't as good for hunting. In MY opinion.
 
At what range do you expect to see deer in the area you will hunt?
100 yards, iron sighted .30-30.
300 yards, scope sighted .270.
(Yes, guys, I know there are other choices, these are just examples I know for sure work.)

Is rifle hunting even legal there? Some places it is not.

Bolt action or auto? Is the auto even legal there? Some places they are not.
A good autorifle will likely cost more than a bolt action of equal power and accuracy.

Where do you live that a rifle would be necessary or reasonable for home defense? In suburbia, a big game rifle might well shoot through an assailant, your wall, your neighbor's wall, and your neighbor.
Shotguns are cheap, powerful, and have the shortest danger space of any serious manstopper.
 
- How much you want to spend
- Ammo availability and cost
- personal preference of action type
- personal preference of composition (wood or synthetic)
- personal preference of style (military look or more traditional)
- detachable magazine (really want/need or don't care)
- open sights or scope
- stainless or blue
- light and fast or heavy varmint style

Is that a good start?
 
Keep in mind that any rifle in a high enough caliber is going to be overkill for home defense in an urban or suburban environment...issues of overpenetration and downrange energy.

Anything over a 30 Carbine or a 357 Carbine is too much..and these are marginal deer cartridge......deer rifle and home defense do nto go well together.

There are not many deer rifles semi auto other then the military guns (AK, SKS, FN FAL, CETME, etc..)...your choice is limited pretyt much to the Browning BAR and the Remington 740/742/7400/750.

Have you considered a pump action deer rifle like the Remington 760? Fast follow up and utterly reliable.
 
Have you considered a shotgun? I hated them for years, but in a home defense and hunting environment they are a good compromise.
On the rifle side we need more info from you. The questions needing answers are:
What do you plan to hunt? Deer only? Predators?
How much do you have do spend?
What type of cover do you plan on working in?
Then start the defense side:
Rural or urban?
Kids?
House/Apartment size?

This makes a big difference in choosing a safe and effective weapon. Of course, you could be like allot of us and have one for every occasion!
 
In the deep, thick woods of Northern Alabama, I have seen a lot of Remington 742/7400 semi autos. Seldom do you have a clear shot above 50 yards, except over power lines cuts, so a 7400 in 30-06/308 is a a logical choice.

If you are really considering a semi auto, ask your self, how often to I maintain my equipment? You need to clean and lubricate a semi auto each and every time you are done shooting. These things will rust, foul, chamber rust, gas system clogs, if not kept clean. I knew a lot of shooters who only wiped the external dirt off their rifles before putting them away. If you are one of those, get a bolt, or a lever action.
 
Deer hunting and maybe home defense? Forget the bolt and the semi-auto.

Shop around pawn shops for a used Marlin 336 in 30-30. This levergun is faster than a bolt, fine for deer out to 200 yards and you'll get a great value to boot.
 
I think so many people think they're going to be really able to get off the rounds if they have a semi-auto.

Unless the person handling that semi-auto is very proficient someone with slightly above average skill will or should be able to keep their shots on target just as fast, sometimes faster with a bolt action.

And the OP has enough posts on here to know that more info is required. Someone sitting in a field will need something different than someone sitting in a stand in the middle of a forest.

But a nice comfortable bolt action in a couple of the old standby's will cover you from East to the West coast.


I grew up hunting the think woods of Northern, MN and still get back up there from time to time for deer season. I have semi-auto's, lever actions, multiple bolt action configurations and I'm still most comfortable with my bolt guns up in the think woods. Same guns I pick up when I'm headed out hunting on the open praries of SD.
 
I can't speak to the hunting end of things but for home defense I find it hard to believe that a bolt action would be anything but a hinderance. I feel the semi-auto would give most people a faster follow up shot if it is called for. These are dynamic situations where you should be on the move looking for cover. You will not be in a prone position waiting for someone to come into your sights (if you are spend some money retaining a good lawyer before you get the gun). I would say get a hunting rifle for hunting and an inexpensive shotgun, eg. basic Remington 870 of Mossy 500, for home defense. It is hard to use the rifle for both for many reasons, some mentioned earlier, like over penetration and what your surroundings are. That being said, if someone is looking to harm me or my family in my house...I will use anything I have handy to prevent that.
 
Wow, am I going to catch heat over this one...just get a bolt-action. They are in ALL ways better than a semi-auto for hunting. There are some semi-auto exceptions, but they still aren't as good for hunting. In MY opinion.
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That's pretty much my opinion too. There are a few rare situations where I would choose a semi, (bear or cougar hunting in heavy brush), but 95% of the time a bolt action is a better hunting rifle.

I can't speak to the hunting end of things but for home defense I find it hard to believe that a bolt action would be anything but a hinderance. I feel the semi-auto would give most people a faster follow up shot if it is called for. These are dynamic situations where you should be on the move looking for cover. You will not be in a prone position waiting for someone to come into your sights (if you are spend some money retaining a good lawyer before you get the gun). I would say get a hunting rifle for hunting and an inexpensive shotgun, eg. basic Remington 870 of Mossy 500, for home defense. It is hard to use the rifle for both for many reasons, some mentioned earlier, like over penetration and what your surroundings are. That being said, if someone is looking to harm me or my family in my house...I will use anything I have handy to prevent that.
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I can't argue with that either. While I love bolt actions for hunting, I would not want to use one in combat.

If you can, just get two guns. If you can't, get either a good hunting rifle or a good defensive long gun and plan on buying the other in the future when you can afford it. Get a gun that at least does one thing very well, that way you don't have to live with something that's a total compromise.
 
Shop around pawn shops for a used Marlin 336 in 30-30. This levergun is faster than a bolt, fine for deer out to 200 yards and you'll get a great value to boot.
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+1 to that.

44 mag would fit the bill as well, in either the Marlin levergun or the discontinued Ruger semi-auto.
 
Lots of semis are used and the deer are just as dead!

I rarely hunt elk or deer in wide open areas, so I carry a BAR in .30-06. It is plenty of gun and plenty accurate. Rarely do I use a second shot, but, it is there.

If you are planning on the longer-than-200-yards-every-time a bolt is the best choice.

Your maintenance and practice habits probably make the biggest difference!

Bob
 
This is just my experience. Don"t mix the two

Home Defense: Semi auto. Because when you are under stress the average home owner is not trained to withstand the blood wrenching reaction you get. just keep pulling the trigger until the threat is gone.

Hunting: Bolt action, remember "One shot one kill" The bolt action speaks for its self.
 
Thanks for the advice!

I should have been more clear in my original question. I recognize the role that on-my-person pistol, and a pistol & shotgun by the bed have in home defense. I also recognize that each person has to decide what is best for them. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

I was asking, what questions do I need to be asking myself, what information about the firearms do I need to understand, and what factors should I consider in deciding what is the best rifle for me?

I couldn't find a point-by-point comparison of semi-auto, lever-action, and bolt-action (much less the different types of bolt action). That, caliber, and quality seem to be the key points.

I haven't been hunting much, and am hoping to get the opportunity in '09. The guys who I would be imposing upon to teach me, friends of the family, are substantially poorer than me. I don't want to be a mooch if I can help it.

I don't expect to ever be involved in violence, and I don't expect to ever have to defend my home. I pray that God blesses our elected & appointed officials with wisdom and grace to lead our country, so that I'm never involved in civil unrest.

But...
I read the adage, 'use your pistol to fight your way to your rifle', and I don't have a rifle to be fighting toward. 'Fight my way to mass transit' or 'fight my way to the tub, then lay in the tub until the police arrive, the tub should stop most calibers' don't inspire my confidence.

Realistically, I'm not going to train enough with multiple rifles. I relax by shooting my 22lr pistol and 22lr rifle. I practice with a 9 mm pistol for personal protection. I don't practice with a 12 gauge shotgun but I know I should. And I want to add a rifle to the mix.

For me personally, I won't train adequately with an optimal hunting rifle + an optimal home defense rifle. My time would be better spent exercising.

Add to that the assault weapon ban. I don't know if we'll get a federal AWB, but I'm certain Maryland and Virginia will pass versions.

Any other advice or comments are welcome. Thanks again.
 
Try a CZ great rifle and the 7.62x39 is comparable to the 30-30. It is not over powered for urban defense in any situation that an AK or SKS would work. I really love mine for deer hunting in the woods.
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7.62 X 39 is somewhat close to a 30-30 in muzzle energy..but the 2 rounds are far from being equal

I do think that both the 7,62 X 39 and the 30-30 are excessive for urban defense...you know the concept of innocent bystanders??? We are not talking about urban combat in war or a SHTF scenario...just ordinary defence against an intruder within a well functioning, lawsuit-happy society,....
 
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The bolt action is my least favorite action, it is the most awkward repeating action for me to work especially under duress.
I like semi, then pump, then lever, I don't know much about the rest of the other available actions.
Good semi's are usually more expensive than the other actions, but to me it's worth it. I don't have any semi's designed for the civilian market (aside from my Marlin 60), my semi's are military variants and although heavier than their civilian counterparts I tolerate the weight knowing they are much more durable than any civilian version.
 
There are a bunch of decent rifles out there whether semi or bolt. Frankly, my favorite utility rifle (meaning handles many things) is a Saiga 308-1 with a 22" barrel. You have the range and accuracy and power for hunting (.308 Winchester), but semi-auto and potentially high-cap if you wanted it.

If it's only hunting, a modern CZ, Remington, or Savage would be the way to go. Modern bolt actions are universally more accurate, though they have perhaps less utility.

If you expect to never use (or hope to never use) this rifle in anger, I'd go with a detachable magazine bolt action rifle. Just trying to give you some ideas.

There's other stuff out there, but I don't want to suggest a $1000+ rifle to you until you've decided whether you like hunting or not.
 
Keep in mind that any rifle in a high enough caliber is going to be overkill for home defense in an urban or suburban environment...issues of overpenetration and downrange energy.
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I don't mean to especially pick on saturno, but this is one of the most frequently repeated "urban legends" on gun boards. Wrong. Untrue. False. Based on myth.

Any lightly constructed bullet at very high velocity will have less penetration and considerably more dramatic effect than a much heavier (handgun) bullet at considerably less speed. Let's say you fire a 110-grain varmint bullet from a .308 at a home intruder. That bullet is designed to rapidly fragment in a light-bodied animal. It will rapidly dump its energy into an intruder, with much less risk of overpenetration than any common handgun round. In the case of a miss, it will also have less risk of penetrating intact through housing materials and endangering innocents. It will be loud: wear hearing protection, if you can. Something like the 7.62x39mm CZ carbine mentioned earlier would be a very handy woods gun or home defense piece.

John
 
You said it John


I agree with you with a varmint bullet...yes specialized rifle bullets will be less dangerous than FMJ pistol bullets....repeat the same test with your regular soft point 30-30 150 gr. and compare the penetration with your regular .40 S&W FMJ...then tell me what you see...

For that matter, a varmint bullet may fail to stop the aggressor on the spot in the first place because of too little penetration...rifle hollow point varmint bullets often expand much more quickly (or even fragmenting) and usually they have thinner jackets in relation to their higher velocity, compared to standard Hollow Point personal defence handgun bullets.

One of the comment in the thread was about the use of a 7,62 X 39 for urban home defense...most of these rounds are FMJ...it could penetrate your neighbour 's house and the one after that....

I remember that during my CCW class our instructor, a retired Marine officer, told us that as general rule of thumb, for defence in urban and suburban settings, ideally you should not go over 1000 ft/lb of ME preferably with light bullets...he said a .30 Carbine was the ideal top of the range....357 revolvers and carbines were fine (357 carbines can go a bit overboard).
44 Mag revolver are ok energy wise but the noise would be the problem.

He said that he favoured the shotgun as ideal HD tool...you can dump an enormous amount of energy (close to 3000 ft/lb for 3" Magnum loads) on your intruder without risking too much overpenetration...however, still, blast flash and noise it's a problem....to remedy that, there are specialized reduced shotgun loads for HD use.

Talking about wearing ear protection...if I face a sudden invasion I do not think I can tell to the intruder, "hey wait a minute I have to wear my ear protectionfor me an my family members!!!"
 
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saturno, based on what I've seen the 30-caliber 110-grain bullets do on coyotes, I guarantee you that there wouldn't be any lack of penetration on a Bad Guy.

Grey_Mana, it is difficult to find a bolt-action rifle which is NOT sufficiently accurate for deer hunting. As a relative newbie to hunting, you'll be doing more sitting and looking than sneaky-snake stalking or still hunting. So, the issue of "light and handy" is not that big a deal.

I did the gunshow table thing for over twenty years. IMO, there's no reason to be afraid to find a good-used rifle and thereby save some bucks.

Cartridge? My preference is for .243 or larger. Maybe .308. Sure, there are many other equally good cartridges, but these are common deer cartridges, and for sure, they work. Ammo is commonly available in most any gunshop or Ace Hardware or WallyWorld.

Scope? "Need" ends at fixed 4X, medium pricing. "Want" is controlled by the size of your billfold. Nothing wrong with iron sights, but a scope allows for more precision in the low light of dawn or dusk.

Home defense rifle? Sure, a semi-auto of the AK/SKS sort will work as good as anything else--and, generally, they are inexpensive.

I guess you could say that my attitude has always been that there is NO "One size fits all."
 
That's pretty much my opinion too. There are a few rare situations where I would choose a semi, (bear or cougar hunting in heavy brush), but 95% of the time a bolt action is a better hunting rifle.
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So I guess this is pretty much the general opinion of most people but I have never been able to figure out why.

Let's say we are hunting North American game. Is there really ANY place where (though it might be fun to have) you actually NEED a rifle shooting less than 1MOA to get that game?

What exactly are these "down sides" to semi auto for hunting?

I have been a hunter since I was in elementary school in the 70's. I've never hunted anything (except a few rabbits) with a bolt action, only semi and lever.

What did I miss out on?

As for self defense vs hunting use, Art nailed that one:

That's all about ammo choice, not the firearm you put it in.

Get what ever gun you like, and you find at the right price, that's enough to worry about.
 
saturno, based on what I've seen the 30-caliber 110-grain bullets do on coyotes, I guarantee you that there wouldn't be any lack of penetration on a Bad Guy.
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Art

I do not doubt that, but a Coyote is not a potential 200-250 pounds (or even more) BG, possibly in heavy clothing depending on the season of the year and/or on where you live.

And the very short distance of engagement, typical of HD situations, can exacerbate the very rapid expansion, or highly likely, fragmentation of these type of bullets. They can literally explode to pieces on impact creating very large surface wounds without reaching anything vital.
I saw .223 HP bullets literally blowing apart on a blade of grass at very short distances!!!
 
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