Bolt actions from WWII

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Bruenor

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I was hoping to get some help from everyone. I now own two Mosin Nagant rifles (91/30 and M44), and had what I think is a pretty cool idea. I'd like to put together a collection of the bolt-action rifles used by the major powers in WWII.

I already have my Nagant, and here's the list that I've put together so far.

1) Germany - Mauser

2) Britain - Lee-Enfield

3) United States - Springfield 1903

Adding these three to my collection would give me a bolt-action from each of the four major powers from the war. So, if I actually want to get rifles that are shoot-able, how much do you think it would cost me for these three pieces? I doubt that they'll be as cheap as my $88 Mosins.
 
The K98 Mauser should run you anywhere from $200-$250. Roughly the same price for the Lee-Enfield I would think. I don't own a Springfield 1903, but my guess is they're probably over $500 in most cases. Somebody can probaly give you a more accurate price for one.
 
Japanese Arisaka 38 or 44 in 6.5x50 are good choices. Be wary of the 7mm ones as they often have weaker recievers.
 
They are dirt cheap (mostly) and are ugly as sin, but the 6.5 Carcano would be a good addition. Also a Mas 36 if you can find one, and a K31 Swiss (i know the Swiss were neutral.)
 
My take on a WWII major combatant bolt action rifle collection without going nuts/broke:

Russia - Mosin Nagant 91/30 ~$100
Germany - K98 Mauser ~$200-300
Great Britain - Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 ~$150-250
United States - Model 1903 ~$450-800
Italy - M38 Carcano ~$100-200
Japan - Type 99 Arisaka ~$150-350
 
Sounds like a good collection you have in mind, best of luck putting it together and don't forget a family photo when you're done;)

I think if you just want a collection of the major rifles you can't go wrong with the ones you mentioned. An Italian Caracano would be a nice addition but they aren't quite as common as many of the others. A Japanese Arisaka 99 and or 38 is also a good idea but like others have said be careful and pick a good example of one.

Also keep in mind that there are several types of Enfield's and Nagant's that were used during the war and many Mauser versions. A Mosin M38 and M44 would be good to have and an Enfield SMLE No.1 Mk3, No.4 Mk1 and if you want to spring for something a bit more expensive how about a No.5 Mk1 Jungle carbine.

Also don't forget the Steyr M95, they are fairly cheap even though the ammo is not and they certainly qualify as WW2 bolt action rifles.

Oh that's right didn't the French try to participate in WW2 also? So I guess we should include the MAS-38 to the list as well even though it didn't appear to do them much good.:uhoh:
 
You could really run up some big bills, but have a nice collection, if you think of the various countries first and then whatever they used...

Sweden: m/96 and m/38 rifles plus the m/94 carbine. Neutral you say.... well maybe on paper... But they actually had some rather large units that marched acros the border into Finland during the Winter war to fight the Russians. Then other units did the same during the Continuation War (the rest of WWII) Plus they helped the troops form Norway who had escape the Nazis by running into Sweden.

Autralia, New Zealand, South Africa, India ,,, different marks of the Enfield than the Brits....

US the 1903A3, plus the A4 sniper variant.

Canada....Their marks of the Enfield, same as GB

Norway... Their Krag rifle until the Germans totally occupied them, then Swede rifles and sub guns for the units training in Sweden, But Brit rifles for units training in Great Britian....

Greece,,, the Mannlichers from the Greek Contract.

anyway you get the idea....

Just doing the AXIS side of things could get interesting...and rather complicated...
 
the real question is what would it cost for a sniper version of each with period correct glass?
 
I'm just now completing a similar collection that I began last year. Unless you have deep pockets and unlimited space in your gun safe, you need to set some clear parameters before you embark on building a WW2 collection. Otherwise, you wind up chasing every "deal" you find on odd bits of WW2 rifle militaria. Yes, you can say that the Stutzens, K31s, and MAS 36 rifles played some role in WW2, but ultimately I don't think their roles were significant enough to justify inclusion in a limited collection. Others may see this differently, but I chose to focus on what I considered to be the biggest players.

For me, I had eight spaces in the cabinet and a decent but not large budget to work with (mainly coming from the sales of existing rifles and handguns in my collection). I decided right away to limit myself to typical rifles used by major WW2 participants. I also wanted an equal number of Axis and Allied rifles, and I insisted on rifles made either during or right before WW2. I did not, however, insist that the rifles be totally period "correct," and so a rearsenaled Garand or Mosin that was initially made in or before WW2 would be fine. Finally, I decided that I'd get a correct bayonet for each rifle, if that rifle would have had a bayonet in WW2.

A Mosin-Nagant 91/30 is a great place to start, as they're cheap, mostly correct, and usually already come with a bayonet. You can often get one of these for under $100.

Following the Eastern Front theme, a Russian-capture German k98 Mauser is a "must-have" rifle. These are relatively cheap now and absolutely dripping with history (and cosmoline on mine:)). You'll have to procure the capture screws and a cleaning rod, and bayonets are also a bit spendy. My total cost was around $375, with the bayonet making up about a third of that.

An often overlooked Axis rifle is the Italian Carcano. These are long gone from the milsurp market, but there are lots available via on-line auctions. I got a great deal on a 6.5mm Cavalry Carbine that turned out to be a totally correct G.I. bringback. I spent about $225 and that includes the integral folding bayonet.

You cannot forget a good British rifle. I chose the Enfield No. 4 Mk. 1 as a representative piece. These can be found for around $200, but I spent $250 on a nice specimen with matching numbers. British WW2 bayonets can also be picked up for about $20.

If you stick to a bolt-action theme, the American rifle to get is the 1903 (or 1903A3) Springfield. However, you can easily spend $500-$600 on one of these, and for the money I preferred a WW2 Garand from the CMP. By driving to one of the CMP stores, I snagged a 6/44 Springfield Armory Garand with an original barrel for under $550. Bayonets for the Garand are pretty steep, too, costing $100-$150 and up.

While I was shopping at the CMP, I also picked up a 3/44 M1 Carbine for about the same price as the Garand. Even though I already had an American WW2 rifle in the Garand, I really wanted a Carbine since both were used by G.I.'s in roughly equal numbers (actually there were a bit more Carbines made during WW2). Even though my Carbine was fitted with a bayonet lug when it was rearsenaled after WW2, I have not bought a bayonet since my rifle would never have worn one during WW2. Besides, genuine WW2 Carbine bayonets are very expensive.

One of my last purchases was a Japanese rifle. Like Carcanos, the Arisakas are no longer on the milsurp market but can easily be bought through auctions. They are, however, quickly escalating in price. You can pick a good-condition 6.5mm Type 38 or a 7.7mm Type 99 for about the same price, generally around $250-$350. I like the Type 99 a little better, and they are OK to shoot if you get a pre- or early-war example. Later Type 99s are more suspect as shooters, though. Both the Type 38 and Type 99 rifles used the same Type 30 bayonet, although there are many manufacturing variations in that basic design. Expect to pay $100-$150 for a good one.

For my last rifle, I picked up a Finn M39 for under $250. Some might argue that the Finns played no greater role (and maybe less of a role) in WW2 than nations such as France or Switzerland. If you feel this way, sink about the same amount of money into a good MAS 36 (if you can find a genuine WW2-made example) or a K31. For me, though, I'm convinced that the Finns' defense against invading Russia in the Winter War (and later in the Continuation War, when the M39 served) is what persuaded Hitler that Russia was weak enough to be invaded by German forces. Without the Germans' opening up the Eastern Front, WW2 would have been very different. Besides that, an M39 rounds out my four Axis rifles, and it's a fine shooter to boot. Finally, despite having a bayonet lug, only the Civil Guard Sk.Y. M39 rifles actually received them. I'm not even trying to find one of these rare birds.

I hope this helps. Have fun and be sure to learn a lot about history in the process of building your collection!
 
Winter War issued or featured M96 Swede

Several thousand ended up being used against the Soviets. Probably will end up being the sweetest shooting, most accurate milsurp you will lay hands on.
 
If you do not need absolute correctness the Yugo M48 Mauser is a cheeper stand in for the K98. That will save you some money for the 03-A3. The P17 Enfeild was mentioned but that's the wrong war. No collection is complete without a Garand. It's un-amercian not to have one.
 
Eljay said:
The P17 Enfeild was mentioned but that's the wrong war.

How is the M1903A3 correct for WWII but not the M1917? Plenty of both saw action in the second world war. I don't think they were ever correctly call 'P17' either.
 
They are dirt cheap (mostly) and are ugly as sin, but the 6.5 Carcano would be a good addition. Also a Mas 36 if you can find one, and a K31 Swiss (i know the Swiss were neutral.)

If you consider one from another neutral country, look at the Swedish Model 96 Mauser in 6.5x55. It along with the Swiss K 31 are probably two of the finest, most accurate military rifles ever made. Swedes are getting rather pricy and price on the Swiss is going up rapidly. The K 31's I purchased 3 years ago for 70-80 dollars each are now going for around 200, makes me glad I got half a dozen while the getting was good.

The big advantage was that these models were never used/abused in Combat.
 
But, they also have no WWII connection save for time produced. For a historical collection, their value would be only as a curiosity and an example of something produced while the rest of the world was at war.

That does not, of course, detract from their desirability as a rifle or shooter, nor does it condemn the quality of their manufacture, merely that their history involves being stored in racks, being carried on guard duty, being used in training, being stored in racks.

Ash
 
As I posted on another thread, the Mas36 did see its fair share of action in 1942 North Africa, being used by the Free French forces who had chosen to keep fighting the nazis.

It even took part in a major battle called Bir Hakeim that cost 3000 lives to the axis and helped to stop Rommel's offensive big time.
 
The M 1917 did see combat in WWII. The Philippine Army and Philippine Scouts (who served with the U.S. Army) both used the M1917.

Those rifles were also used by guerilla forces after the capture of the Philippines.
 
I refer to the K31's. 1917's have WWII and WWI connections and so drip with so much history they can't be ignored by any serious WWI or WWII collector.

Ash
 
I just about have WWII covered.

I have Arisakas, a Carcano, Enfields, Mosins, Mausers, and a Rock Island 1903. Some others too.

Steyrs, Swiss K31, Garands, M1 carbines, The P17, all sorts of good stuff to choose from! Maybe not strictly bolt actions, but combat arms of the period.

OOPS! Forgot the French guns! I got an 07/15 Berthier last year. No kidding lots of cool guns to buy.
 
JesseL, I was not aware of the M1917 being used in WWII, where? (This is not "prove it" this is "inform me") (and I see that the "P" is reserved for the '14) Trebor sheds some light on the subject. Is there any way to tell if a '17 was used in WWII combat? I have one and an 03-A3
Thanks
 
Eljay said:
JesseL, I was not aware of the M1917 being used in WWII, where? (This is not "prove it" this is "inform me") (and I see that the "P" is reserved for the '14) Trebor sheds some light on the subject. Is there any way to tell if a '17 was used in WWII combat? I have one and an 03-A3
Thanks

USSR said:
Neither saw action with frontline troops in WWII.

I don't think the M1917 saw any use with United States frontline troops in WWII, but I understand it was used by the Philippine Army and Chinese Nationalists, as well as the British Home Guards and many US rear-echelon, reserve, and training forces.
 
I don't think the M1917 saw any use with United States frontline troops in WWII, but I understand it was used by the Philippine Army and Chinese Nationalists, as well as the British Home Guards and many US rear-echelon, reserve, and training forces.

nope, i do believe the Alaska territorial guard carried M1917s in the fight against japan in the Aleutian Islands campaign. all the photos iv seen of them they mostly had M1917's though i have no direct source

not to mention as you said some non combat units and those lower on the prestige chain (read as in the rear with the gear and some black units) still had the M1917. but many still saw combat.

and to who ever said it. there is no such thing as a P17. doesn't exist, never will.
 
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