Bottom line for Clay games with an 870

[Dave McCracken]

This borders on a guess. IMO, it'll improve things but quantifying it may be beyond the ken of any man.

Given that 25 FPS more or less velocity can visibly affect patterns, a primer swap can change pressures by several thousand PSI, even a wad swap that produces effectively no change in pressure or speed can affect the pattern, it's really hard to state accurately that having a cone lengthened by X will result in Y pattern.

Side bennie,kick reduction is a given, again hard to quantify.

Best answer is try and see. And yes, I'd do ONE barrel. You pick....

 

[riverdog]

Dave,
The best of plans can be ruined by the facts. My intent was to stay with a single choke system so I didn't end up with a bunch of different chokes. Apparently the Rem Choke can't be installed in a Remington barrel aftermarket and a different system would need to be installed. The diameter isn't there to accomodate RC. That said, I'll be staying with the fixed Full Choke that's in the barrel and will just have the forcing cone lengthened. Much cheaper that way and from what I've read (both here and elsewhere), will do a world of good pattern-density-wise. For now though, I'm going to throttle back on equipment issues and just shoot, gotta use up some ammo to see where I really stand.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Good approach, I hate to see nice old barrels cut up, even though I'm guilty of doing so in the past.

Frank's barrel is set up for the old .795"X44TPI Truchoke system. I use Colonial and Hastings tubes, no probs to report.

OTOH, there's three choke systems here, and I wouldn't mind simplification.

A small favor, pattern that barrel with a standard load prior to and after doing the cone.
I plan on so doing when I pick up a new barrel, Maybe we can get some empirical evidence to see just how the pattern adjusts.

I plan on shooting three patterns each time and averaging the hits. If you do the same we can compare apples to apples. Thanks...

 

[riverdog]

The most I'd do to the 30" bbl is the "cone job". I smoked a number of clay birds with it today (not all of them, but enough to keep me coming back). I shot a few rounds of Trap with both the 30" FC and the 26" RC with the Full tube. The 30" felt better than the 26". Not a loss though, I'll still need the 26" for Skeet.

All I need to do now is stop missing. On more than one occasion I had the bird cold, straight going away aspect, target right on the front sight, squeeze, boom -- nothing, no hit, bird keeps flying as I keep tracking it over my sights. Beats me ...

BTW, I picked up the book Dave recommened, "The Clay Target Handbook" by Jerry Meyer and "The Complete Book of Shotgunning Games" by Tom Migdalski. Both are very good reading before starting Clay games. I'll be reviewing them tonight, maybe try to figure out how those birds dodged the shot

 

[HSMITH]

The 30" felt better than the 26".

Sounds like me, I have yet to meet a shotgun barrel that was too long to shoot, and yes I have shot the old Marlin Gooseguns. 36" of barrel sure does swing nice, but that bolt action sucks for true pairs.

Not a loss though, I'll still need the 26" for Skeet.

Don't get caught in that short barrel for skeet thing. Some of my best scores are with a 30" Ruger Red Label SC, a 30" Citori Special Sporting and a 425 Browning with 32" tubes The 425 with the 32" tubes moves well, as does a 30" 870. Lots of guys out there shoot short barrels and are hurt by it IMO. If you have the luxury of a couple barrels try them all, and try the other guns you have the chance to shoot. Skeet shooters are notoriously bad for trying to get you to shoot a round with thier favorite shotgun. Take 'em up on it!! Shoot a 24 or a 25 with a 410 and see what you are looking for for the next year LOL.

Same for sporting clays, LONG barrels are easier to shoot for all but the smallest/least strong of us.

Try different barrels and guns, sooner or later you will know what you need to play your games. It will just fit.

 

[riverdog]

Try different barrels and guns, sooner or later you will know what you need to play your games. It will just fit.

I was looking at Browning 525's today. That will probably be my next non-870. Right now the reason the 26" is my skeet barrel is because of the chokes. 30" is a fixed Full while the 26" has the RC set-up and I've got the right tubes. A 30" RC would be nice but I need to work on the rationale before buying another barrel.

The only non-12 ga I have is a 20 ga Red Label. That might be a fun gun for Skeet. Again though, it's an older gun with fixed chokes. Fun and games ...

 

[Dave McCracken]

H, a mild disagreement....

Short barrels work well for most anything provided balance is correct for that game and shooter. Short barrels tend to move the balance point towards the butt, which means less inertia keeping the swing swinging.

I do shoot the TB with its 30" barrel very well, even better than Frankenstein and it's 21" nominal barrel. But, I've also shot it more in a shorter period of time.

Our finances will improve soon and I'm treating myself to a new barrel in a few months. I've been vacillating between a 26" LC barrel and a 30" one.

Right now the 30" version gets the nod. I've got lots of short barrels here. Time will tell....

 

[HSMITH]

Actually I think we are in agreement Dave, and that I just did not make my point effectively. Short barrels are fine for anything in shotgunning, but longer barrels are easier to shoot for most all of us. Balance is a personal thing that may or may not fall in line with the other preferences.

My point to Riverdog was just that he should not get caught in the "you HAVE to have a short barrel for skeet, and a long barrel for trap, and an in between barrel for sporting clays, and THAT IS THE WAY IT IS!!"

Shoot different barrel lengths and guns, sooner or later something is just going to jump out at you as the one for you. Even play around with taping weights on the gun in the house, if one feels good go shoot it that way. Weight and balance are a HUGE issue in how a shotgun feels and moves.

I have shot 98's with an 18" cylinder bore 870 on the skeet field, but I have also done it with a 28" remchoke barrel on the same gun. It was easier for me with the longer barrel, but you have to try it to find out what fits the way YOU shoot.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Good points, H. I don't see many Tablets of Stone with something like "Thou shalt use long barrels for____" at the range.

Balance and "Feel" are purely subjective. Results are objective, with a score card or heavy weight in the back of a hunting vest.

One nice thing about 870s,among many. Adding or subtracting weight here and there means one can play with the balance until something happens. Between using those trash hull/shot recoil reducers and a mag cap with a 1/4" hole in it to aid mounting another weight further forward, there's lots of things to fiddle with.

 

[riverdog]

Bringing this one back.

I've been shooting Trap singles for a while now with my Wingmaster and breaking birds quite regularly -- nothing to brag about but my numbers keeps climbing. I recently tried Skeet with it also. Singles were no problem, but shooting Trap singles left me with some bad habits for when the doubles come up.

When shooting singles racking the slide is a rather casual afterthought and I single load through the ejection port rather than using the magazine. Well this has led to some very bad muscle memory when shooting Skeet doubles. I nail the first bird and when I swing to take the second, the dead hull is still in the chamber. I beat this a couple times but I had to really concentrate on racking the slide immediately following the first shot. I took both birds on a couple of occasions, but it was a forced mental exercise rather than a natural motion.

Doubles with an 870 is very doable, but if anyone wants to start shooting any of the Clay games with an 870, I strongly recommend you start out with Skeet or Sporting Clay and NOT Trap singles. A few of the guys recommended I switch to an autoloader or an O/U. While I do intend to buy an O/U, I really need to fix this problem first.

Therefore, I won't be shooting Trap for a while. I'm planning to do some dedicated Skeet doubles work from the stations that require doubles. Shoot a few rounds only from those four stations. Hopefully I can train in some muscle memory so that racking the slide is more natural and not an afterthought.

Skeet shooters are notoriously bad for trying to get you to shoot a round with thier favorite shotgun.

BTDT. One of the guys I shoot with swapped me his Lightning for my 870 during our second round of Skeet (he shot the 870 extremely well); the Lightning may have helped ruin me A high quality O/U is so nice it feels like cheating compared to an 870. I will definitely be getting an O/U, but first I need to finish what I started with the 870. An O/U is good for games, but a good pump gun with an extended magazine can do so many other tasks well. Once I really feel comfortable with an 870 shooting doubles, I'll treat myself to an O/U

 

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks for posting that,Riverdog.

A suggestion....

When you set up for those doubles, use more pressure than you have been with the support arm pulling the weapon back into the cup of your shoulder. This will get the stroke started and remind you that this is not a single.

HTH...

 

[riverdog]

Dave,
If I pull back on the forearm as you suggest, will the bolt immediately open on firing the first round? I'll try it will some test dummies first.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Yes.

Pulling the shotgun back into the shoulder with the forward hand will get the pumping stroke started and done faster.

HTH...

 

[riverdog]

Thanks, that may be the fix. We'll see next time out.