Bounty Hunters

[Langenator]

Saw an article in the Seattle P-I yesterday that struck me as a bit unusual. One of the leading bounty hunters operating in the Northwest testified to the state (WA) legislature asking the state to regulate bounty hunters (license, certify training, require CCW, etc). WA currently requires no licensing and has no regulation on bounty hunters.

The apparent catalyst for this was an incident where a 19 year old bounty hunter burst into a STarbucks with a shotgun, held a mother and child at gunpoint, then cuffed and left with a man. The man turned out not to be the man the bounty hunter was after. 19 y/o doofus is has been criminally charged. Note: I already have a good idea what the readers of this board would do if said doof burst into Starbucks while ya'll were there. That's not the point of this thread.

States are currently split about 50/50 on licensing/regulating bounty hunters.

So-should states license/regulate bounty hunters, in the legit interest of protecting the citizenry from gun-toting morons with inflated self images and more attitude than brains?

Or is this guy just trying to get the state to reduce the amount of competitors in his business, and the state should keep its nose out?

 

[ojibweindian]

I don't think any new legislation is needed to regulate bounty hunting. First, there is civil recourse, i.e. litigating the living bejeebers out of the errant BH. Second, there are already laws on the books for things like assault, battery, assault and battery, kidnapping and attempted kidnapping, etc.

 

[one-shot-one]

!!!!!!!!!!

all i know is as an ex-bounty hunter he will really enjoy his stay if he goes to prision, can you say protective costody?

 

[Pilgrim]

Looks like the Seattle PI is more interested in eliminating his competition.

Pilgrim

 

[Boats]

Bounty Hunting is illegal in Oregon. The streets aren't running red with blood from their absence either.

I know I shouldn't believe the teevee, but whenever I catch a documentary show on bounty hunters, I am reaffirmed in my belief that they are almost as bad as the problem they purport to address.

 

[c_yeager]

Little piece of trivia that i learned a couple of months ago. The Seattle area bounty hunting scene is essentially run by a single company (monopoly). Bounty hunters get buisiness soley based on reputation and results. There is little or no way for a new company to suddenly emerge and take too big of a piece of the pie from the existing company. Im sure that the SINGLE large company that does most of the work would just LOVE to make the process even more difficult for smaller new companies to get into their market.

 

[Langenator]

Wonder if the guy speaking to the Legislature is associated with that company? Ya think?

 

[geekWithA.45]

It seems that whenever to turn over some rocks when you investigate a professional licensing scheme, you find two things:

A) A reasonable sounding argument for public safety, which sometimes does, and sometimes doesn't hold water

and

B) A vested interest that is either trying to protect or break into its turf.

 

[ksnecktieman]

As long as criminals can post bond through a bondsman for ten percent and skip out. Knowing the police are too busy to chase him, there will be a need for bounty hunters. The police in my town are too busy to worry about a bench warrant by and of itself. If they come into contact with someone with a warrant they will bring them in.
If a bondsman collects 1,000$ from a criminal he is obligated to pay to the court 10,000$ if the guy does not return. I understand completely him offering to pay someone another 1,000$ to have him apprehended.

License them? No, I do not think so. Punish them when they do wrong? YES, that will work.

 

[bountyhunter]

So-should states license/regulate bounty hunters, in the legit interest of protecting the citizenry from gun-toting morons with inflated self images and more attitude than brains?

The FED needs to regulate their powers because they usually cross state lines in their job so individual state laws would be too confusing. And, I agree that bounty hunters have way too much power and have for a long time.

 

[bountyhunter]

Knowing the police are too busy to chase him, there will be a need for bounty hunters.

No question they are necessary, it's just their legal right to break down doors without warrants and kidnap innocent people at gunpoint that needs to be reigned in.

 

[atek3]

I don't understand how this system works. So a law that prohibits trespass has a "except for bounty hunters" clause? How do bounty hunters legally break laws?

atek3

 

[only1asterisk]

This is tough issue. BH do work that most police only do when it pleases them. They need some flexability to do their job. They do screw up and are not held accountable often enough. I think this a thread to follow.


David

 

[Selfdfenz]

I watched a COPS episode where they pulled a guy claiming to be a PI/BH. Seems he pulled a small caliber pistol on someone in a parking lot. Not even a guy he was looking for. Just road rage or something.

This dude lied to the police about what he had done (I seem to remember he claimed he had no gun but the cops found one as described by the offended party) and as it turned out had an expired license and maybe a couple or warrents against himself IIRC.

He was a punk thug plain and simple. He went to jail.

This "profession" needs some kind of oversight.

Bondsman are in business and while I have fortunately never had casue to use that service I assume it's one the greater public needs. I'm not willing to accomidate their need to reduce their loses however by having punks like this out and about and in some cases creating a bigger threat than the BG they are after or, by the way they do business, creating more risk to the public than was originally created by some runaway shoplifter (or will be if he or she re-offends).

 

[sturmruger]

I could be wrong about this but my understanding about BH is when you get the money for your bond you sign an agreement that if you skip they are authorized to go wherever you are and aprehend you. Even if you are in your mommas house they can come in and get you. It isn't the goverment saying they can, it is the individual signing away their rights and authorizing them to come on whatever property they want to.

 

[bountyhunter]

I don't understand how this system works. So a law that prohibits trespass has a "except for bounty hunters" clause? How do bounty hunters legally break laws?

They are not subject to the same laws cops are. BH's can enter without warrant or even valid probable cause. The core problem is that many of them are Rambo wannabees who don't use good sense. They are subject to law suits, but it is not much recompense for the nightmares after they have kicked in your front door and held your family at gunpoint before they realize they address was "wast Palm Avenue", not "East Palm Avenue". I agree, they should be federally regulated and subject to some common sense limitations on their search and seizure powers.

 

[bountyhunter]

I could be wrong about this but my understanding about BH is when you get the money for your bond you sign an agreement that if you skip they are authorized to go wherever you are and aprehend you. Even if you are in your mommas house they can come in and get you. It isn't the goverment saying they can, it is the individual signing away their rights and authorizing them to come on whatever property they want to.

The problem is when they come after the wrong people. The general public never signed away any rights to let them run amok through their property.

 

[WT]

atek3 - they rely on an 1873 United States Supreme Court decision which stated, in part .....

"They may pursue him into another state; may arrest him on the Sabbath; and if necessary, may break and enter his house for that purpose."



TAYLOR VS TAINTOR
83 US 386 Conn 1873 U.S. Supreme Court

 

[TimRB]

"They are not subject to the same laws cops are. BH's can enter without warrant or even valid probable cause."

I presume that bounty hunters are like security guards, in that they have the same powers of arrest as ordinary citizens, as opposed to peace officers. For this reason they may not need probable cause, but they *do* have to be correct. If they wrongly arrest some innocent person, they (quite rightly, in my opinion) will be sued so hard they'll squeak.

Tim

 

[jnojr]

There used to be a late-night show called, IIRC, "Bounty Hunters", on FOX, I think. Good God, but it was eye-opening... a couple of the "bail enforcement agents" they showed seemed to be rational, professional people. But most were the absolute dregs of society... outright thugs who could never get into the military or a law enforcement job, and so they become "bounty hunters". And the stories that crop up about the abuses some of them commit...

 

[mercedesrules]

(Langenator) Note: I already have a good idea what the readers of this board would do if said doof burst into Starbucks while ya'll were there.

Squirt coffee out of my damn nose while fumbling my gun onto the tile floor, mag springing across the room, hitting my forehead on the counter, out of sheer terror?

Or is this guy just trying to get the state to reduce the amount of competitors in his business, and the state should keep its nose out?

This one. Private, good; state,bad.

MR

 

[Ktulu]

ojibweindian said:

I don't think any new legislation is needed to regulate bounty hunting. First, there is civil recourse, i.e. litigating the living bejeebers out of the errant BH. Second, there are already laws on the books for things like assault, battery, assault and battery, kidnapping and attempted kidnapping, etc.

PING! The nail has been hit squarely on the head.

We don't need to run off half-cocked and make ten new laws every time some idiot does something stupid. If we did that, we would have laws for every action one can imagine plus laws that overlap every other law just in case. Oh wait, we already have all that and yet crime and stupidity continue unabated.

 

[BeLikeTrey]

Regulation?

The law already regulates BH's. As stated before, you are solely responsible for your actions. I did fugitive retrieval for a bit and we were OH SO CAUTIOUS. You don't wanna get the wrong person. Lawsuit risks abound. And just like anyone carrying a CWP you must follow a certain procedure or go to jail yourself.

 

[Mr. Clark]

I am not sure about the regulation, probably no need for it. Most of what they do is really illegal if they are doing it to the wrong person.

What happens if they come crashing through my door in the middle of the night thinking I am the guy they are looking for yelling "Bail Enforcement Agents"? What am I legally allowed to do to stop them from taking me away?

They aren't cops, and if they are from a state that does not license or regulate them, then they aren't even semi-agents of the state. They are just a bunch of guys who are breaking into my house. I didn't sign anything allowing them to do that.

I know what I would do, but what can I legally do? Anyone know?

 

[ravinraven]

Different law??

"They are not subject to the same laws cops are. BH's can enter without warrant or even valid probable cause."

I had thought bounty hunting went out with the cattle drives, etc. I didn't realize it still existed until a few years ago when a crowd of BHs stormed into a house in, I think, Phoenix and blew away one or more wrong people.

At that time, a police chief I know [far from Arid Zone] said that in the original investigation and arrest of a suspect, all the proper procedures such as rules of evidence, searches, etc. have been observed and carried out. Once the culprit is in "the system" if he fades out while on bond, those original rules, protections, etc are out the window. They have already been complied with. Anything can be done to grab the guy. So it appears that they are operating under a different law than the cops have to. In fact, they are operating in the extension area of the law beyond where the cops have already operated.

Of course, this still doesn't make it OK to shoot bystanders on the mistaken identity defense.

If that defense worked, I'd become a BH and make lots of mistakes.

rr