Boutique wadcutter loads are they still viable ?

[horsemen61]

So buffalo bore has marketed a line of full wadcutters from 45 auto rim 45 colt 44 mag 44 special 357 mag as self defense ammo question do you guys feel that these would be Good self defense loads and do any of you guys load wadcutters in other calibers for any reason I am very intrigued by this idea I mean a hard cast flying beer can punching a good hole through a body has to be somewhat effective

 

[redbullitt]

I am curious too, but I think I would prefer a nice fat open hollow point most of the time.

Hardcast wad cutter could be interesting if you are after penetration though.

 

[blarby]

If you got hit with a 240g 1200 FPS wadcutter, you'd be all kinds of dead.

WC's cut skin/flesh the same way they cut paper. Nice clean hole, right through.

No worries of deformity/ non penetration. Biggest worry ( especially with buffalo bore, lol ) would be OVER penetration.

 

[Wil Terry]

immorecuriousboutthepunctuationmyself....

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I would be happy with a .38 Special standard pressure hardcast full wadcutter. Instant low-recoil .38 Special load that will still do 16-18" of penetration in gel.

 

[rchery59]

immorecuriousboutthepunctuationmyself....

Can't cut him a little slack ?
To the OP I use full wadcutters in my .38 SP. HBWC loaded pretty hot for self defense rounds, hollow points for reloads. It's kinda tough recharging a cylinder quickly with a wadcutter.
They are very disruptive at least to water jugs. With flesh I hope to never find out.

 

[horsemen61]

Yep my punctuation ain't the best last checked I ain't getting graded on it here on THR way to keep it high road wil terry :banghead:

 

[bluetopper]

148gr hard cast double end wadcutters is all I load in 38 Spl. anymore. So very accurate and fun to shoot.

 

[TooManyToys]

I have always thought wadcutters would make for a wicked self defense load.
Surly there has been much testing done on subject.?

 

[788Ham]

This SWC is all I shoot in my .38's and .357 revolvers, do a good job as far as I'm concerned, round hole straight through.

 

[moonman16]

A DEWC will get the job done, wound channel is a good one.

 

[HexHead]

In other threads here discussing wad cutters for SD, it was mentioned they would be less likely to be deflected inside the body than round nose bullets, and those same sharp shoulders that make the clean holes in paper would do the same to internal organs and arteries. Works for me.

 

[chieftain]

I use Winchester 148gr lead wad cutters in my "J" lightweight 638 & 642 (all without that abominable hole in the side of the frame).

Doc Robert's on an article comparing the "J" frame 38spl vs the small 380 back up guns, recommended the wad cutters. Some years ago. For a guy who's EDC/CCW WEAPON WAS A 3" "K" frame with the classic federal JHP 125gr full house, (it was a real beast) for a LOT of years, my arthritis will not allow me to train with the hot round any more. It doesn't get better as you get older.

I like that the sights are properly registered for the wad cutters, and it is a beauty to shoot. Yes a practice a lot more with it since going to the wad cutters.

As Doc Roberts say's, penetration trumps caliber of the wound channel.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[Jesse Heywood]

I'm waiting for Berrys Hybrid Hollow Points.

 

[wally247]

Looks like I'm not in the minority. I also use a lot of them in 38/357.

 

[blarby]

I'm waiting for Berrys Hybrid Hollow Points.

Depending on when you pre-ordered them, they started shipping on 03/15/14

Not like some of us are waiting, and checking daily or anything

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I started a thread on .38 wadcutters for SD after I talked to some old timers who were cops back in the day with my Father in Law. These guys had a huge respect for wadcutters and used them exclusively in their duty/off duty guns but then again that was before high tech hollow points.

A couple of these guys have not only shot folks but been shot themselves so I felt that their opinions were valid enough to research. Following the discussion here at THR, I did more research and some testing of my own. Didn't shoot anyone but I shot a lot of test stuff and found a lot of disruption to various target media that makes me think wad cutters just might be what I'm looking for.

I use them and flat nose plated lead for SD....my Wife's "Go To" load for .38 are 110 gr. Wad cutters and my .38 and .357 Go To loads are 147 gr. plated wad cutters. My only caution is to look out for what is behind your target as they can over penetrate.

VooDoo

 

[Potatohead]

Didn't shoot anyone but I shot a lot of test stuff

Thank goodness.

 

[TooManyToys]

Vodoun da Vinci,
Did you use different harnesses of lead in your testing?
...or the traditional very soft lead typically used in full wadcutters.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I don't cast my own - I buy all my bullets. The 110 gr. lead wad cutters I get from a local gunsmith who has a buddy who casts them. No idea what kind of lead or the hardness but they make nice clean cookie cutter holes until they kinda deform in test media.

The 147 gr. plated are Berry's plated wad cutters and they seem harder than the 110 gr. bullets as they hardly deform in media.

The test media I shoot is rice straw mats soaked in water and stacked/tied to make bundles. They are close to ballistic gelatine but a bit harder being mostly water...I use them because we used to use them in test cutting Katana (I used to teach Japanese swordsmanship and other edged weapons arts) and they are "traditional" test cutting media because they simulate flesh to a very high degree.

Soaked rice straw has been a test media for evaluating Katana for hundreds of years because it acts like flesh against a cutting edge, arrow, or bullets. I had a bunch so I used it and found it an ideal test media for evaluating penetration and bullet deformation/expansion of hollow points.

Sorry for the off topic rant....

VooDoo

 

[Buck13]

The test media I shoot is rice straw mats soaked in water and stacked/tied to make bundles. They are close to ballistic gelatine but a bit harder being mostly water.

Where do you get these?

 

[blarby]

Soaked rice straw

Thats a dang great idea there.

Where do you get these?

Do tell. They don't grow a lot of rice out here in the NW, but might be worth it if you had access.

Gelatin, ballistic gelatin, is VERY expensive, and tricky to calibrate.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

OK, I used to buy from Mugen Dachi but I have *a lot* of stock and it has been 5 years...they no longer sell directly from the website but you can get it a variety of places I trust.

http://www.nihonzashi.com/tatami_used.aspx

http://www.tameshigirimats.com/cart/

http://www.tameshigiri.com/

The original source of the stuff I have is directly from Japan. Buy the used Tatami as it is a bit cheaper. Shipping is the killer - the mats are cheaper than Ballistic Gelatine that I priced. Yer gonna shoot it, not cut it with a $10K Katana so it won't matter if it has some dirt in it. I don't care if it scratches the bullets.

I roll it/fold it into targets and tie it with baling twine....soak it over night immersed in enough water to cover. Don't let it sit too long as it gets soggy and will start to mold if the weather is warm. Add a little chlorine bleach to the water to kill germs/bacteria as this stuff smells like vomit if it gets moldy or close to it.

Seriously...over night if plenty and if you pull it out of the water and let it drain standing on end for an hour the extra water will run out and only the soaked strands will remain without being drippy. Transport on a big plastic garbage bag to keep it from drying out. Don't think it simulates flesh?

Go ahead...punch a soaked roll with your fist. Carefully...it's like punching a 5 gallon plastic/rubber container. It will yield but against impact it is highly resistant.

VooDoo

 

[blarby]

Thats dang good stuff right there- thanks for the heads up.

Mr. Walkalong, anyone we can move this part of the data into the library ?

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I'll add the usual caveats of *be careful* and make sure of your backstop etc. Shooting this stuff is like using phone books or water jugs or blocks of gelatine. It is test media and higher speed bullets that hit it and deform can exit the side of the bundle and do all of the things that a deformed and destabilized bullet can do when they tumble and fragment, mushroom, expand, etc.

It's not calibrated and the results and information gained by shooting into any media is subjective...it will tell you about deformation of a bullet and penetration of a load especially if you compare it side by side with something you have calibrated test information on.

Shoot some factory loads for comparison. I find this stuff easy to use and much cheaper than gelatine but not as available as a phone book. I always thought phone books made a poor comparison media but they work well for some folks.

You guys know about being careful, right?

VooDoo