brake cleaner on blueing/ stuck choke question.

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I know you got it loose, but in the future one of the things I've had success with (on two old rusty vehicles) is to soak the offending bits in penetrating oil (somewhat of a black magic, everyone has one they swear by), and then if it won't loosen, actually tighten it a little bit. Not too much, but work the bolt (or choke) alternately loosening and tightening it. Sometimes crud builds up too much if you only go one way.
 
actually tighten it a little bit. Not too much, but work the bolt (or choke) alternately loosening and tightening it. Sometimes crud builds up too much if you only go one way.
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I've used this technique as well. It will prevent bolts and screws from snapping off because of corroded threads.
 
For future reference, careful application of heat with a propane or mapp gas torch works wonders. But I do mean careful; It's real easy to ruin the bluing this way. It should be used as a last resort, after a couple of types of penetrating oil and perhaps impact (if it can be done without damage) have been attepted
 
Also remember that you may only be able to make a little progress, that you can't even feel, but if you keep at it, soaking it for a day in between efforts, eventually you stand a good chance. If I can get some of the rusty bolts off of my Subaru that has been through nasty salt winter after nasty salt winter, penetrating oil, proper tools, heat (think heat gun), and a liberal drowning of patience will get you pretty far.
 
Howdy!
Most of the "penetrating" oils mentioned above are basically only slightly different versions of kerosene, coal oil, mineral spirits, paint thinner or #2 fuel oil.
All of those will work just about as well, but cost a whole lot less.
WD-40 is one of those high priced mineral spirits also, but is less useful as a lubricant that any of the above. If you use it on stainless steel, you would be better off using WATER, as WD-40 will PROMOTE galling of two SS surfaces being rubbed or threaded together.
It's interesting to look at the additive sections in an automotive store, and examine the contents on each can. The "store brand" is always the cheapest, of course(sometimes only 20% of the NAME BRANDS), but all similar products have the same listed contents.
That's called "marketing", and we all fall for it, at one time or another.
The same is true of many retail-sold lubricants and "penetrating" oils.
It's your money.
Thanks for your time.
 
Total BS. WD-40 does work as a penetrant. It has worked for me too long to believe any differently.
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Long, long ago, when I was a very young lad, I shot a pigeon, in flight, with a .22 rifle.

I think we can all agree that while a .22 LR can kill a pigeon in flight, there are other firearms that are much better suited to do that task.

I own one of the largest Jeep TJ project site on the web. To say that I've engaged in a lot of discussions concerning stuck nuts and bolts would be and understatement. The vast majority start with "....I sprayed this shock mount bolt with WD-40 and I still can't get it off.....". The vast majority of them end with "....and that recommendation you gave for PB Blaster really did the trick....."

WD-40 is a great water displacer and I do use it for that purpose. It doesn't do a great job on rusty nuts and bolts and I'll bet it doesn't work that great on pigeons either, albeit I've not tried the later. ;)
 
PB Blaster is indeed one of my favorites. Though recently I've been favoring something called something240something. My friend is borrowing it, but that stuff is toxic to non-metal parts, which to me is a good indicator of a chemical's usefulness.

In my cleaning chemicals, with the exception of Simple Green, I figure the more toxic it is, the better job it does, as long as you take the obvious, sensible precautions.
 
paducahrider said:
Howdy!
Most of the "penetrating" oils mentioned above are basically only slightly different versions of kerosene, coal oil, mineral spirits, paint thinner or #2 fuel oil.
All of those will work just about as well, but cost a whole lot less.
WD-40 is one of those high priced mineral spirits also, but is less useful as a lubricant that any of the above. If you use it on stainless steel, you would be better off using WATER, as WD-40 will PROMOTE galling of two SS surfaces being rubbed or threaded together.
It's interesting to look at the additive sections in an automotive store, and examine the contents on each can. The "store brand" is always the cheapest, of course(sometimes only 20% of the NAME BRANDS), but all similar products have the same listed contents.
That's called "marketing", and we all fall for it, at one time or another.
The same is true of many retail-sold lubricants and "penetrating" oils.
It's your money.
Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...

I suppose that Kroil probably does have a similar chemistry to kerosene or fuel oil, but then I suspect that a Chateau d'Angludet Margaux wine has a similar chemistry to Two Buck Chuck. Yet there is a great difference between the two.

Kroil is undoubtedly more expensive per oz than the alternatives listed, but that's not too much of a factor in something that gets used by the drop. The best part is I know it works extremely well.

Some stainless steel alloys are prone to galling and require special lubricants to prevent it. It may be that WD-40 is not up to the task of preventing galling with these alloys, but I find it extremely hard to believe that a stainless surface will gall faster lubricated with WD-40 than with nothing.
 
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See, this is why I like my old fixed choke guns. I've never had to soak the barrel to get those pesky choke tubes out. :uhoh:

Am I the only one that doesn't leave the chokes in the gun? Maybe it would be prudent to leave the choke a 1\4 turn loose if your going to leave it in the gun? Just a thought.
 
I just take it out after using it, and wipe it with a rag and some cleaner, then slap a bit of anti-seize on the threads. Of course due to my frequent use of it on my vehicles, I'm pretty darn good at using it and not getting any anywhere it is not supposed to be. That's a problem for some people. :)
 
In my cleaning chemicals, with the exception of Simple Green, I figure the more toxic it is, the better job it does, as long as you take the obvious, sensible precautions.
Click to expand...

100% agreed.

The more the fumes irritate your nose and eyes, the greater the risk of rash or blister with skin contact, the more effective it is for cleaning.

Recently discovered a degreaser called "Red Hot". Man, that stuff hurts the sinuses when you spray it on, but you can watch the ick run off before you even hit it with the pressure washer.

As far as all penetrating oils being created equal (and simple), I'll politely disagree. The specifics of their manufacture are usually closely gaurded secrets. Varying proportions and the addition of other chemicals or elements make certain ones more effective at certain tasks than others. Often, it is the successful name brand companies that have generated enough revenue for further R&D that continues to improve their product, especially in this day and age of the EPA making it more and more difficult for chemical producing companies to thrive.

WD-40 is great for a sticky lock cylinder or hinge, but I'll agree with a few others that when it comes to corroded ferrous metals, PB is second to none.
 
Sauer Grapes said:
See, this is why I like my old fixed choke guns. I've never had to soak the barrel to get those pesky choke tubes out. :uhoh:

Am I the only one that doesn't leave the chokes in the gun? Maybe it would be prudent to leave the choke a 1\4 turn loose if your going to leave it in the gun? Just a thought.
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Leaving the choke 1/4 turn loose is just begging to have it fired in that position, which would not be good.

Just put it in clean with some anti-sieze and you'll have no problem getting it out when you want to.
 
How about a synthetic auto grease for either long term storage or anti-seize functions?
 
A tube of white lithium grease would work. Most are cheap enough to buy a tube of anti-seize stuff that will last a long time- it needs to be cleaned off and reapplied, not a big deal
 
If you are concerned about cost, I have a friend who's dad has been using the same anti-seize on the family vehicles for the past 35-40 years, and still has something like 1/4 of a bottle left. I'm talking about the 8-oz bottles, the kind that I have both anti-seize and brake lube in sitting right here to my left. Yes, I have strange things sitting on my desk.:eek:
 
Kroil; Worker of Miracles???

Howdy!
To natman and all others who believe that Kroil is the be-all/end-all of lubricants/penetrants:
First, I would like you to know that I've used Kroil and even have some in my shop presently, which I've had for years, but just don't use often.
Second, I would like you to know that I've tried almost every one of the substances mentioned on this thread, but don't find that much difference between them, except cost.
What I have discovered, after piddling around in shops for almost fifty years, is that the WAY they are used makes more difference than the substance being used, so far as loosening threaded components is concerned.
Judicious use of heat, applied properly, to the right part of an assembly(usually the larger diameter component) makes the breakdown of these assemblies FAR EASIER, irrespective of the substance being applied.
I wouldn't just TELL anyone how much heat to apply, since that sort of thing should be demonstrated to be properly understood, and each situation is different.
natman has disputed my claim about the similarity of a variety of hydrocarbo-based substances, by claiming that expensive wine and "TWO BUCK CHUCK" are chemically similar, but that there is a "GREAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM".
With that analogy in mind, I call attention to several Frenchmen who, just recently, were convicted and given jail time and large fines for shipping, over several years, THIRTEEN AND A HALF MILLION(13,500,000) liters of CHEAP WINE to the U.S. of A., while marketing it as a more expensive variety.
It was being snapped up, at the higher prices, by the public here.
Additionally, in New York City, MANY restaurants were recently found to be serving cheap fish varieties and claiming they were more expensive types. It was difficult to tell the difference with out lab/genetic testing.
MachIVshooter claims that companies closely guard the specifics of manufacture for their products, which is true. However, sometimes that is done to prevent others(the public?) to discover just how similar their products are to their competitor's, and especially to those selling for lower prices.
The point here is: Sometimes its difficult to tell one product from another.
natman also mis-stated my comment when he claimed that I said that you would be better off using "NOTHING" than WD-40. What I stated was that you would be better off using "WATER" than WD-40 on stainless steel surfaces. I stand by that statement by virtue of a very eye-opening and unbiased comparison of several dozen lubricants, including WATER, which is probably still out there on the web, somewhere. By the way, the results were surprising to me also.
The test performed was simply a threaded stainless steel bolt and nut, lubricated with one of the lubricants, which was alternately tightened and loosened until it galled/failed. Kroil was one of those tested, and its performance was middle of the road, at best. The best retail penetrating-type oil was Liquid Wrench with teflon(PTFE). I used that as chain lube on my racing bike for years, and never wore out a chain. It has been replaced by Liquid Wrench with CERFLON, which I presently use.
It's main problem is that it is very thin, which means that it must be applied more often, but makes it better as a penetrant.
The winner in the lube comparison was Dupont 100% Bearing Grease, which was the only product that NEVER allowed galling/seizure during the tests.
It has been replaced by DuPont Krytox, which is expensive but works great for bearing applications.
Decades ago, I began to try things that worked well but cost less than things that cost more and worked as well(or, in some cases, not as well).
I am still in search of better moustraps.
As I said, Kroil works, but I just don't see it as a world beater.
WD-40, I feel, is the most misused product of its type, on the market.
Fundamentally, its a solvent, not a lubricant, but some folks even use it as a rust prventative, which is truly a joke, since it evaporates, for practicle purposes, completely, leaving nothing with which to protect anything.
Of course, opinions differ, and, as you can see from my title, I'm from Kentucky, where we understand that differences of opinions are what make horseraces, and progress.
Thanks for your time.
 
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Kroil; Worker of Miracles???

Howdy!
To natman and all others who believe that Kroil is the be-all/end-all of lubricants/penetrants:
First, I would like you to know that I've used Kroil and even have some in my shop presently, which I've had for years, but just don't use often.
Second, I would like you to know that I've tried almost every one of the substances mentioned on this thread, but don't find that much difference between them, except cost.
What I have discovered, after piddling around in shops for almost fifty years, is that the WAY they are used makes more difference than the substance being used, so far as loosening threaded components is concerned.
Judicious use of heat, applied properly, to the right part of an assembly(usually the larger diameter component) makes the breakdown of these assemblies FAR EASIER, irrespective of the substance being applied.
I wouldn't just TELL anyone how much heat to apply, since that sort of thing should be demonstrated to be properly understood, and each situation is different.
natman has disputed my claim about the similarity of a variety of hydrocarbo-based substances, by claiming that expensive wine and "TWO BUCK CHUCK" are chemically similar, but that there is a "GREAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM".
With that analogy in mind, I call attention to several Frenchmen who, just recently, were convicted and given jail time and large fines for shipping, over several years, THIRTEEN AND A HALF MILLION(13,500,000) liters of CHEAP WINE to the U.S. of A., while marketing it as a more expensive variety.
It was being snapped up, at the higher prices, by the public here.
Additionally, in New York City, MANY restaurants were recently found to be serving cheap fish varieties and claiming they were more expensive types. It was difficult to tell the difference with out lab/genetic testing.
MachIVshooter claims that companies closely guard the specifics of manufacture for their products, which is true. However, sometimes that is done to prevent others(the public?) to discover just how similar their products are to their competitor's, and especially to those selling for lower prices.
The point here is: Sometimes its difficult to tell one product from another.
natman also mis-stted my comment when he claimed that I said that you would be better off using nothing than WD-$). What I stated was that you would be better off using WATER than WD-40 on stainless steel surfaces.
I stand by that statement by virtue of a very eye-opening and unbiased comparison of several dozen lubricants, including WATER.
The test performed was simply a threaded stainless steel bolt and nut, lubricated with one of the lubricants, which was alternately tightened and loosened until it galled/failed. Kroil was one of those tested, and its performance was middle of the road, at best. The best retail penetrating type oil was Liquid Wrench with teflon(PTFE). I used that as chin lube on my racing bike for years, and never wore out a chain. It has been replaced by Liquid Wrench with CERFLON, which I presently use.
It's main problem is that it is very thin, which means that it must be applied more often, but makes it better as a penetrant.
The winner in the comparison was Dupont 100% Bearing Grease, which was the nly product that NEVER allowed seizure during the tests
It has been replaced by DuPont Krytox, which is expensive but works great, for bearing applications.
Decades ago, I began to try things that worked well but cost less than things that cost more and worked as well(or, in some cases, not as well) as more expensive things.
As I said, Kroil works, but I just don't see it as a world beater.
Of course, opinions differ, and, as you can see from my title, I'm from Kentucky, where we understand that differences of opinions are what make horseraces, and progress.
Thanks for your time.
 
differences of opinions are what make horseraces, and progress.
Click to expand...


That I like. Yours?

And I agree completely on application of heat being the best for loosening things that have self-tightened or corroded over time, but it can be risky business on guns, where finishes are easily ruined. The amount of heat I use to free a sticky brake caliper bleeder screw would absolutely ruin the finish of a shotgun barrel about 6 inches down the tube.

I also agree that WD-40 is overused and frequently in the wrong applications. But it does still have it's merits, and plenty of 'em

Cheers!
 
Details

I have been a great believer in KROIL for ferrous parts, but sometimes you need different chemical action for non-ferrous applications.
PB Blaster can work well, also.

The significant difference that I found with a product was when trying to free a stuck tub faucet handle made of pot-metal (zinc?) on the brass faucet stem and covered with water scale- lime/crud multi-year accumulation.

Nothing made progress and a torch was sure to melt the surrounding materials, so what next?

Found a can of spray I'd bought earlier from Federal Process called
"FREE ALL"
and gave it a short shot, and a half-hour later, another shot.
Shortly thereafter I grabbed at the frozen handle and twisted/wiggled up and down and after a few moments of work- noticed that the motion arc increased- and after a series of wiggles, that handle was free in my hands.

This is many years later and that handle is still in use- after a judicious cleaning and new stem installation.

FREE ALL has a buffered acid incorporated to improve action against various elements, so I wondered if blue would be affected- so I placed some on a cut-off barrel section for a while, and the bluing was not damaged. YMMV, but that was a test I did try.

[email protected]
 
paducahrider said:
Howdy!
To natman and all others who believe that Kroil is the be-all/end-all of lubricants/penetrants:
First, I would like you to know that I've used Kroil and even have some in my shop presently, which I've had for years, but just don't use often.
Second, I would like you to know that I've tried almost every one of the substances mentioned on this thread, but don't find that much difference between them, except cost.
What I have discovered, after piddling around in shops for almost fifty years, is that the WAY they are used makes more difference than the substance being used, so far as loosening threaded components is concerned.
Judicious use of heat, applied properly, to the right part of an assembly(usually the larger diameter component) makes the breakdown of these assemblies FAR EASIER, irrespective of the substance being applied.
I wouldn't just TELL anyone how much heat to apply, since that sort of thing should be demonstrated to be properly understood, and each situation is different.
natman has disputed my claim about the similarity of a variety of hydrocarbo-based substances, by claiming that expensive wine and "TWO BUCK CHUCK" are chemically similar, but that there is a "GREAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM".
With that analogy in mind, I call attention to several Frenchmen who, just recently, were convicted and given jail time and large fines for shipping, over several years, THIRTEEN AND A HALF MILLION(13,500,000) liters of CHEAP WINE to the U.S. of A., while marketing it as a more expensive variety.
It was being snapped up, at the higher prices, by the public here.
Additionally, in New York City, MANY restaurants were recently found to be serving cheap fish varieties and claiming they were more expensive types. It was difficult to tell the difference with out lab/genetic testing.
MachIVshooter claims that companies closely guard the specifics of manufacture for their products, which is true. However, sometimes that is done to prevent others(the public?) to discover just how similar their products are to their competitor's, and especially to those selling for lower prices.
The point here is: Sometimes its difficult to tell one product from another.
natman also mis-stted my comment when he claimed that I said that you would be better off using nothing than WD-$). What I stated was that you would be better off using WATER than WD-40 on stainless steel surfaces.
I stand by that statement by virtue of a very eye-opening and unbiased comparison of several dozen lubricants, including WATER.
The test performed was simply a threaded stainless steel bolt and nut, lubricated with one of the lubricants, which was alternately tightened and loosened until it galled/failed. Kroil was one of those tested, and its performance was middle of the road, at best. The best retail penetrating type oil was Liquid Wrench with teflon(PTFE). I used that as chin lube on my racing bike for years, and never wore out a chain. It has been replaced by Liquid Wrench with CERFLON, which I presently use.
It's main problem is that it is very thin, which means that it must be applied more often, but makes it better as a penetrant.
The winner in the comparison was Dupont 100% Bearing Grease, which was the nly product that NEVER allowed seizure during the tests
It has been replaced by DuPont Krytox, which is expensive but works great, for bearing applications.
Decades ago, I began to try things that worked well but cost less than things that cost more and worked as well(or, in some cases, not as well) as more expensive things.
As I said, Kroil works, but I just don't see it as a world beater.
Of course, opinions differ, and, as you can see from my title, I'm from Kentucky, where we understand that differences of opinions are what make horseraces, and progress.
Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...

Maybe YOU can't tell the difference between fine wine and cheap crap, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Sorry if I misstated your statement about water being a better lubricant than WD-40. It wasn't intentional. BTW, I still don't believe it. If you are going to cite studies, then "it's out on the web somewhere" doesn't cut it.

The test you cite with the nut and bolt is a test of lubrication preventing wear, not penetrating ability. Under the circumstances I'm not surprised that Kroil didn't fare well. I wouldn't dream of using it as a chain lube, a task for which it is remarkably ill suited.

Perhaps our differences in opinion stem from a different understanding of what makes a good penetrating oil vs. a good lubricant. In a penetrating oil I don't care about wear prevention, extreme pressure handling, repelling dirt, long lasting, water proofness or a long list of qualities that make a good lubricant. What I DO care about is the ability to soak into the tiniest spaces to loosen rusty and stuck fasteners. At that particular and specialized task, Kroil is the best.

I used Liquid Wrench for decades. I had a drop can, a spray can and a bucket to soak parts in. After I tried Kroil I gave them all away. It's that much better.
 
One Size Does Not Fit All

I have more than a dozen lubes and greases, exotic and mundane, and use them all from time to time. I use CLP, GI & commercial, LSA (MIL-L-46000), WD, RemOil, Tetra lube & grease, 30-wt motor oil, Mobil Synthetic grease, 3-in-1 (!), Marvel Mystery Oil, Dexron (a new favorite), etc, etc. The last stuff I bought was a SFL-1, a food-grade lube from Lubriplate, after reading extensive and objective reviews and determining that it is significantly superior to just about everything else to be had for semi-auto firearms, all those competing claims notwithstanding. I think the upshot is that for some applications, a lot of things will work fine, but for others, you need something a little more specific. I have found that penetrating applications have been most successful for me with Kroil, but I used to soak stuff in gasoline, kerosene, diesel, distillate (that goes back a few years) and anything else in the barn or shop that looked suitable. I use Kroil for it now, but reserve the right to use yak urine in the future should that prove superior, or available in the absence of lemur bile...
:D
 
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