Branch Davidians guilty in shootout about to be freed: 13 years after Waco standoff

[Jeff White]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...4A52EE49098EE426862571560014582F?OpenDocument

Branch Davidians guilty in shootout about to be freed: 13 years after Waco standoff
By Angela K. Brown
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
04/20/2006

WACO, TEXAS

Thirteen years after the Branch Davidians' armed standoff with federal agents ended in an inferno that killed nearly 80 people, six sect members who were sent to prison are about to be released from custody.

Most of those who will be freed over the next two months escaped from the compound near Waco as it burned to the ground on April 19, 1993 - 51 days after a shootout that erupted when federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents tried to arrest religious leader David Koresh for stockpiling guns and explosives.

The six men went to federal prison for manslaughter, weapons offenses or both in connection with the shootout, which left four federal agents and six Davidians dead.

Once the men are out, they will be on supervised release for three to five years. Among other things, they will be barred from associating with one another.

A seventh Davidian is also still behind bars but is not scheduled for release until next year.

One of the six, Paul Gordon Fatta, said he remains angry about the government's actions.

"They needed their pound of flesh, so they took the survivors and put them on trial. Somebody had to pay," Fatta, 48, told The Associated Press by telephone.

Koresh and nearly 80 followers, including two dozen children, died in a blaze that survivors say was ignited by tear gas sprayed into the compound buildings from military tanks. Authorities claim the Davidians committed suicide by setting the fire and shooting themselves.

Fatta is to be released next month in San Diego, where he was moved to a halfway house last year and now works at a restaurant. He was not at the compound during the standoff and was at a gun show in Austin during the shootout with the ATF. He said he will live with his family after his release.

"If I had it to do all over again, I would do the same thing," Fatta said.

Jaime Castillo, who is to be released next month from a Los Angeles halfway house, said he plans to remain there and try to rebuild his life by forming another band - which is how he met Koresh in 1988 - or by working as a personal trainer. The 37-year-old Castillo said he might visit the compound site, where a few survivors still meet for Bible study each weekend.

In 1994 in San Antonio, 11 Davidians went on trial; all were acquitted of murder and conspiracy to commit murder. However, five were convicted of voluntary manslaughter and weapons charges and three were convicted on weapons charges. A 12th Davidian pleaded guilty to a lesser charge and testified against the others; she was sentenced to three years and freed in 1996.

The U.S. judge sentenced most to 40 years but in 2000, reduced most terms to 15 years after the Supreme Court overturned his decision.

 

[english kanigit]

It's a shame that mere 'tax men' have such power.

 

[Chipperman]

Already posted here:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=196078

Although this thread title is more clear.

 

[Joey2]

english kanigit,

Please explain, I do not follow you?

 

[Lupinus]

what? I didn't know any atf boys went to jail for that.

Oh...you mean the guys that were thrown in prision for defending themselves from attack which just so happened to coem from a goverment agency? Good, long over due.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

english kanigit,

Please explain, I do not follow you?

It was an ATF raid. The ATF are tax collectors and have no police powers, yet they pose and act as super Federal police, with authority to terrorize and kill at will.

 

[Art Eatman]

James Pate, for his article on the trial for Soldier of Fortune magazine, interviewed several jurors. He was told that the judge's instructions confused the jury. Had they understood, they'd have voted Not Guilty.

FWIW, Art

 

[Lupinus]

they play for the same team, it doesn't surprise me to hear that Art.

Every single ATF agent that participated in Waco (and Ruby Ridge too) deserves to be punished. Depending on their involvment that ranges from loosing their badge to jail time in my opinion.

 

[hugh damright]

As I recall, the judge sent them to prison because Branch Davidians fired upon the ATF. But instead of it being up to a jury to decide if the actual individuals on trial fired upon the ATF, it was left to the judge.

 

[Art Eatman]

I don't remember who was the judge in the case. I don't think it was "Hippo" Garcia, and Lucius Bunton worked mostly at Pecos. I regret that Judge Bunton wasn't the one on that case. Rigidly ethical and honest.

Art

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

I ought to write a book about it for after my death.

I was there a at the Davidian Seventh Day Adventist Compound near Waco a few months before the Govt terminated them with the lie to bring in the army that they were a drug manufacturing factory. Otherwise the army had no business there. Vernon Howell AKA David Koresh a name he took from the bible paid me to visit as he wanted my survival stash of Reloaders, bulletcasting tools and components I had at my family ranch after injuries closed my businesses. He paid my way and I stayed 10 days all expenses paid and was given $300 cash. I attended a San Antonio Gun show with Vernon's bodyguards and a gun show gun dealer and his wife who were pretending to be Seventh Day Adventists too and who were constantly begging money from Vernon to make bigger purchases of guns from a East Coast wholesaler so he could get a better price on the weapons to sell at Texas gun shows to undercut local gun dealers and make his living. I believe he was told to pay Vernon back with guns and arranged with soldiers who bought weapons from him to steal stuff from their bases to send to Vernon and Vernon was like a kid in a candy store believing he was going to be murdered by evil powers and being provided all these toys to be able to defend himself against the great Satan and his cohorts. Vernon wanted me to set up an ammunition factory like I had before I was injured and closed my businesses and to train his people to defend themselves as I had been a Police Firearms Instructor.
Vernon had a fantastic memorization of the bible and put things together that made very good sense. He had a Jewish scholar there at the evening meetings with a Hebrew original old testament and the true meaning of many passages in the Hebrew old testament were shown and discussed that were not clear in our King James Version after many revisions throughout history.

There was a Govt spy at the compound and it was the gun dealer who set him up with all the weapons and they even caused to be mailed poorly packaged hand grenades to Vernon to break open in transit through a post office.

During the standoff my local FBI in California called me in for an interview with the BATF who quizzed me about my visit for hours and the local agent wanted to charter a plane to fly me there to walk in and bargain with them and to get the women and children out but he was ignored because the Waco Batf people wanted to have complete control and to teach them a lesson.

The charter plane was because I was in a rehabilitation nursing home recovering from a second spinal surgery but I was willing to try to walk in with crutches if theu got me within 100 yards as they would recognize me.

I wrote the district attorney and judge about the set up and even the defense attorney about the wrong people were being railroaded and wrote the newspaper. But it was all a set up to punish anyone who felt their religion was more important than the government.

The group were originally devout Seventh Day Adventists who followed all the words of their prophet Ellen G. White while the main body became worldly. They had prophets and were a respected group in Waco for many many years with a really big chunk of Waco property that they lost in religious battles of the leaders and the residue of the group remaining moved to their peach farm and built temporary uninsulated homes there and burnt all the trees for heat. Vernon came along with his charismatic personality and fantastic understanding of the bible and the book of Revelation, took over the group and expected to die and did with the help of the Government.

I refused to sell Vernon anything or to support his ideas in any way. I am not an Adventist and there were some really nice people there from around the world of many races. I bought a sack of salt water taffy pieces and had to ask Vernon for permission to share them with the little children. The children showed me little necklaces that Vernon had given them as special little people.

The Government could have grabbed Vernon anytime he was in town and not have punished the devout Seventh Day Adventist group for being conned by the Psychotic Vernon Howell AKA David Koresh.

 

[deanf]

Fatta is to be released next month in San Diego, where he was moved to a halfway house last year and now works at a restaurant. He was not at the compound during the standoff and was at a gun show in Austin during the shootout with the ATF.

And so why was he in prison?

 

[Kamicosmos]

And so why was he in prison?

I'm scratching my head over that one too.


Fitz, excellent story! I always love to hear first hand accounts of things like thise. You should write a book about it! I can see why you'd be skittish though, what with the ATF's proven track record of harrasing authors of non-fiction books. I shudder to think what they might do to a author of a Real Life Experience like yours...

 

[xd9fan]

+1 Lupinus!!!

 

[DMF]

Originally posted by the Real Hawkeye:
The ATF are tax collectors and have no police powers . . .

Hawkeye, you are a liar, and here is the proof, a link to Title 18 Section 3051 of the US Code: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=18&sec=3051

Congress gave the ATF statutory authority to conduct law enforcement activities, just like they did with every other federal law enforcement agency. For those that care, before Congress moved them to Justice the statutory authority was in 26USC7608. Regardless of what title, they were still authorized by Congress to serve warrants, make arrests, and carry firearms, aka "police powers."

"Section 3051. Powers of special agents of Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives

(a) Special agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms,
and Explosives, as well as any other investigator or officer
charged by the Attorney General with the duty of enforcing any of
the criminal, seizure, or forfeiture provisions of the laws of the
United States, may carry firearms, serve warrants and subpoenas
issued under the authority of the United States and make arrests
without warrant for any offense against the United States committed
in their presence, or for any felony cognizable under the laws of
the United States if they have reasonable grounds to believe that
the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such
felony.
(b) Any special agent of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms, and Explosives may, in respect to the performance of his
or her duties, make seizures of property subject to forfeiture to
the United States.
(c)(1) Except as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3), and except
to the extent that such provisions conflict with the provisions of
section 983 of title 18, United States Code, insofar as section 983
applies, the provisions of the Customs laws relating to -
(A) the seizure, summary and judicial forfeiture, and
condemnation of property;
(B) the disposition of such property;
(C) the remission or mitigation of such forfeiture; and
(D) the compromise of claims,
shall apply to seizures and forfeitures incurred, or alleged to
have been incurred, under any applicable provision of law enforced
or administered by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and
Explosives.
(2) For purposes of paragraph (1), duties that are imposed upon a
customs officer or any other person with respect to the seizure and
forfeiture of property under the customs laws of the United States
shall be performed with respect to seizures and forfeitures of
property under this section by such officers, agents, or any other
person as may be authorized or designated for that purpose by the
Attorney General.
(3) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the disposition
of firearms forfeited by reason of a violation of any law of the
United States shall be governed by the provisions of section
5872(b) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986."I

Hawkeye I see you still choose to lie to push your agenda. Why am I not surprised nothing has changed?

 

[DMF]

And so why was he in prison?

Fatta was in prison because a jury of his peers believed beyond a reasonable doubt, he was guilty of conspiring to illegally possess and manufacture machine guns, and aiding and abetting the illegal possession of machine guns. Those that know the facts know the NFA violations (illegal machine guns and destructive devices) are the reason the ATF was investigating Vernon Howell, Fatta, and the others to begin with, and they proved their case, with Fatta and Graeme Craddock.

 

[DMF]

James Pate, for his article on the trial for Soldier of Fortune magazine, interviewed several jurors. He was told that the judge's instructions confused the jury. Had they understood, they'd have voted Not Guilty.

1st Pate, and his magazine have a HUGE axe to grind with ATF, because an ATF case against contract killers advertising through SOF ultimately led to a victim's family successfully suing SOF. Hell, I'm skeptical of anything printed in SOF magazine, but especially so if it's about ATF.

2nd, one juror has allegedly complained (although I haven't found proof of these complaints) that they didn't realize the sentences for the person convicted only of the NFA crimes would be so long. She never said he wasn't guilty, only that she didn't believe he should have gone to jail so long. No juror has ever commented on the other convictions AFAIK. Regardless of what jurors thought of the sentencing, nothing changes the fact they unanimously agreed that the government proved beyond a reasonable doubt that those were guilty of the crimes of manslaughter, and using or carrying a firearm in a conspiracy to murder federal agents.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Yo, Mr. DMF, I yam happy to see that you are back. As far as a .gov apologist, you are about the best.

I was concerned that you got sent down to NO to like, confiscate guns or something.

Seriously, I am happy to see you back posting.

 

[mountainclmbr]

I think the vacant cells should be packed untill capacity with the govt. thugs that committed this murder. For life!

 

[mountainclmbr]

Oh, DMF. how can I ingratiate myself? Heil to who? Hitler, Castro, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot. All very successful at "your" goals, but not mine. I don't wish to control your finances or your life or your beliefs. Those from the other side of the aisle have killed maybe 200 million of their own citizens to secure communism and totalitarian belief. In an ideology where left is right, up is down and right is wrong, this leftist ideology makes perfect sense. But, the leftists should be honest about the murder and theft they intend to impose. I don't intend to be "stoopid".

 

[richyoung]

Please, oh please, Mr. DMF, explain to me how the 2nd Ammendmant can be modified by a law, and not a Constitutional Ammendment, like the Constitution requires, and was done to start and end Prohibition, start the income tax, change the voting age, limit president to two terms, etc...

 

[Lupinus]

holy crap, I know we have people who defend cops (and in some cases they should be defended from some of the things they get attacked for around here)

....but we actually have a guy here defending the ATF?

My god I think I just saw a pig fly past my window....

 

[Jeff White]

I opened this thread, and now it's time to close it. There is no reason for the personal attacks.

Another topic we can't have civil discourse on.

If members could follow the rules and be civil, everyone might learn something. There are as many facets to a story as there are people who are involved.

Jeff