Brass and Reloading

[twken]

I have reloaded 45 ACP for some time. I have tested then used several different loads for a long time. I have always known that brass like the other coponents of a cartridge can change the way a load preforms. Though I know this is possible, I have never really experienced much change.

Recently I picked up some brand new Starline +P Brass. I loaded a few hundred rounds with a proven load and tested them this last weekend. In my experience, this was the first brass that really effected a load. The load seemed a little hotter and had a little more kick than when I used the same load with new Remington Brass. Since I had both types with me we were able to make the determination right there.

The common sense conclusion if I continue to use this brass is to reduce the powder. Could a few of you share your experience with new +P Brass. I would love to hear your opinions and reccommendations in this area. Thanks.

 

[beatledog7]

There are those who say that +P brass is made a little sturdier, thus is a little thicker, thus boasting a slightly reduced interior volume. That would account for such brass shooting a little stouter for a given charge than non +P brass.

There are also those who say that in many instances, the +P headstamp is just a way for manufacturers to distinguish otherwise normal brass that they have loaded to +P pressure, thus helping them avoid legal issues when a shooter hurts himself shooting +Ps in a non +P gun.

Both are probably correct.

 

[Reloadron]

While this works best with new unprimed brass, just for the heck of it weigh several cases from each manufacturer. Measure the brass OD and in fact measure all the dimensions you can. If for example one brand is heavier than the others but has the same OD the case wall thickness is likely thicker. This results in slightly less case volume for the same given powder load.

Differences like this are really apparent when measuring high power large rifle cases. There are even a few water tricks used to determine case volume.

Overall, I have not seen or felt much difference in .45 loads using powder from the same lots. But that is just me in my guns.

Ron

 

[Patocazador]

I have been told that Starline brass is 'stronger' than other brass. I really don't know what that actually means. Is the web thicker, the walls thicker, the quality of raw materials better, or what? If it means that the walls are thicker (and the statement is true to begin with), then you would have less capacity for powder and the same amount of powder would produce higher pressure and the recoil would be increased.

 

[Fishslayer]

Remington brass has walls that are thin enough that I only use them for .452" bullets.

Given the case volume of .45ACP I would be a little surprised if that would make a noticable difference.

A chrono would tell for sure...

 

[twken]

Case Weight Interesting

Great Information people. Hey Reloadron, you were on the money. Both the Remington unprimed brass and the Starline unprimed +P brass fit the in the Dillon 45 ACP gauage perfectly. Same Overall length as well.

Then I weighed the brass. Remington weighed 81.3 grains. The Starline +P brass weighted 89.3. Thus the slightly reduced interior volume theory is on the money. So even though the difference was only around 10% the reduced case volume did make a difference in kick and probably the fps as well (will check the last).

One of the reasons I am trying it is because I heard people got more reloads out of this brass. Certainly seems reasonable if the walls are potentially 10% thicker. Now the next question is if I take the load down slightly will I get a reasonable load with brass that loads more times. I will update in the future.

Thank you all for your input.

Tom

 

[918v]

10% is nothing in a low pressure round. Try 20% in a 9mm. That's the difference between a FC case and a WCC case.

 

[rcmodel]

New Starline brass is known to give increased velocity in most all calibers.

Is it thicker brass, stronger brass, or harder brass?

I lean toward Magic Missouri fairy dust in the alloy.

rc

 

[moxie]

Piggybacking on what rc said, there ain't much difference.

I've got many .45acp cases I've reloaded over a hundred times and are still going strong, of mixed parentage. Scores of different headstamps.

With the exception of all A-MERC cases (toss them) and some TZZ from the '80s, they are all about the same to within .75 of a happy or .327 of a glad.

Part of the fun of reloading is scarfing up the many different headstamps and finding out where they were made, and when.

But at the end of the day they are all pretty much the same. One oddity you'll notice as you get into the hobby is some cases have concave or "dished" heads. Usually these are Speer made cases but lately some Federals have the configuration as well due to Federal being under the ATK umbrella. But "I" marked cases have it as well. And others. There are other "oddities." Have fun finding them. Like beveled rims. Who has those?

Having said that, for consistency's sake, if you are doing precision accuracy shooting, then using the same lots of headstamps makes good common sense.

 

[1SOW]

I've had a similar experience recently with 9mm brass.
I've started chamferring the 9mm "wcc" crimped range brass I used to discard. It is definitely harder/thicker than WIN. I haven't chrono'd them yet, but they do have a little more *pop* than my normal WIN brass loads.

In addition to having slightly less internal volume, they may not "open up" quite as fast or as much as softer brass when using light loads.

I also think these might be very good brass for SD loads.

 

[zeke]

From starlines web site. Have used the 45 plus p and trhe 45 super brass for plus p loads. The plus p brass is visually thicker at base. The Starline 45 super brass is tougher and thicker at web. Their 38 special plus p brass just has a plus p head stamp.


"Auto +P Brass (Large Pistol primer)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0.892 - 0.897 O.A.L.
The 45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions. A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas. This case has approximately 2 grains less internal water capacity than the standard 45 Auto."

 

[fguffey]

If you had micrometers and scales you could measure the case thickness and weigh then compare.

I have found 303 British case heads as thin as .130, I have found a difference between military 30/6 and commercial R-P cases, the R-P case head is thicker by .060 thousandths, but! the military case was heavier, on the Internet it is claimed military cases are heavier because military cases are thicker.

F. Guffey

 

[oneounceload]

The common sense conclusion if I continue to use this brass is to reduce the powder.

IMO, the common sense conclusion would be to use a chrono to give you more precise data than just a "feeling". Sending some rounds off to one of the testing labs for pressure testing is even better, albeit more expensive