Armscor brass

[Logan5579]

I've got some once fired 45 colt cases headstamped A P (which I think is Armscor Phillipines). I've done some reading on here and other places about the quality of Armscor brass, some people say throw it straight in the trash and others say its decent brass.

Does anyone have any actual experience with reloading Armscor brass? I plan to reload these as black powder cartridges and I'd like to know if I'm going to run into problems with the brass itself that aren't worth the effort.

(In case anyone is curious - 30gr of swiss 3F and a 255gr pure lead RNFP - target load)

I've been reloading starline brass with this same load and a more powerful hunting/defensive load (38gr swiss 3F and the same bullet), no problems at all but I've got no experience with Armscor brass.

 

[AJC1]

I've got some once fired 45 colt cases headstamped A P (which I think is Armscor Phillipines). I've done some reading on here and other places about the quality of Armscor brass, some people say throw it straight in the trash and others say its decent brass.

Does anyone have any actual experience with reloading Armscor brass? I plan to reload these as black powder cartridges and I'd like to know if I'm going to run into problems with the brass itself that aren't worth the effort.

(In case anyone is curious - 30gr of swiss 3F and a 255gr pure lead RNFP - target load)

I've been reloading starline brass with this same load and a more powerful hunting/defensive load (38gr swiss 3F and the same bullet), no problems at all but I've got no experience with Armscor brass.

If loading Holly black I don't think your going to have any of the problems that the jacketed bullet guys have. Your bullet is large and your pressure is low. I'd just load em up.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I've got some once fired 45 colt cases headstamped A P (which I think is Armscor Phillipines). I've done some reading on here and other places about the quality of Armscor brass, some people say throw it straight in the trash and others say its decent brass.

Does anyone have any actual experience with reloading Armscor brass? I plan to reload these as black powder cartridges and I'd like to know if I'm going to run into problems with the brass itself that aren't worth the effort.

(In case anyone is curious - 30gr of swiss 3F and a 255gr pure lead RNFP - target load)

I've been reloading starline brass with this same load and a more powerful hunting/defensive load (38gr swiss 3F and the same bullet), no problems at all but I've got no experience with Armscor brass.

I’ve loaded plenty of Armscor and it’s pretty good brass. A P is Armscor Precision, Arms Corporation of the Philippines, and A USA is Armscor, NV corp brass made in the USA. Kinda obvious but, yeah.
I have loaded my .45Colt loads pretty hot and not had problems.

 

[hdwhit]

I haven't used Armscor brass in 45 Colt, but I have used it in other calibers. I had no problems with it.

 

[Logan5579]

Awesome, the brass looks good but after reading some comments on other forums I started to wonder if I was missing something important. Black powder is pretty forgiving when it comes to powder charge weights and pressure curves but I wanted to be sure the cases would behave as expected. Thanks for the info!

 

[Cheesemaker]

I’ve loaded plenty of Armscor and it’s pretty good brass. A P is Armscor Precision, Arms Corporation of the Philippines, and A USA is Armscor, NV corp brass made in the USA. Kinda obvious but, yeah.
I have loaded my .45Colt loads pretty hot and not had problems.

I learned something - thank you. I don't typically pick up range brass that is not mine however, a few weeks ago there were 50 44 Mag cases on the ground(A USA headstamp). I go to the trash can in the bay looking for a box to put them in - I find a empty Precision One box of 44 Mag - my deduction, those cases are likely once fired and came from this box. I rarely see 44 cases or boxes at the range.

I bring the brass home, de-prime, wet tumble along with the other 44Mag and 45Colt I shot that day. A few days later, resizing - the A USA is noticeably harder to resize than the other cases, hard enough for me to separate these headstamps from the others. Next step flare the case mouth - again much harder than the other cases and needed to adjust the flare die. Then they went to the trash bucket. I have enough other 44 Mag brass.

I did not know that the headstamp was Armscor until reading this post. I did not try and find out since I trashed them.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I learned something - thank you. I don't typically pick up range brass that is not mine however, a few weeks ago there were 50 44 Mag cases on the ground(A USA headstamp). I go to the trash can in the bay looking for a box to put them in - I find a empty Precision One box of 44 Mag - my deduction, those cases are likely once fired and came from this box. I rarely see 44 cases or boxes at the range.

I bring the brass home, de-prime, wet tumble along with the other 44Mag and 45Colt I shot that day. A few days later, resizing - the A USA is noticeably harder to resize than the other cases, hard enough for me to separate these headstamps from the others. Next step flare the case mouth - again much harder than the other cases and needed to adjust the flare die. Then they went to the trash bucket. I have enough other 44 Mag brass.

I did not know that the headstamp was Armscor until reading this post. I did not try and find out since I trashed them.

Here’s a good resource for headstamp identification

https://afte.org/resources/headstamp-guide

 

[CQB45ACP]

I’ve loaded plenty of Armscor and it’s pretty good brass. A P is Armscor Precision, Arms Corporation of the Philippines, and A USA is Armscor, NV corp brass made in the USA. Kinda obvious but, yeah.
I have loaded my .45Colt loads pretty hot and not had problems.

True that.

In 45ACP I’ve loaded both and have so many “A USA” I separate them into their own group. I use both AP and A USA with no problems.

For the first time though I now have an “ARMSCOR USA” loaded and ready to go (but can’t shoot it till I get a second one lest I lose my one example.

 

[crestoncowboy]

The Phillipines arms Corp was trash.

 

[wcwhitey]

I bought several hundred unfired in .38 Special and I am on its 3rd loading. Would I say it’s great, no! It works, primer pockets are fine but it is a bit brittle. I have had no cracks yet and don’t expect any for a while as I load moderately. I have seen nothing to say it’s not safe.

 

[EricBu]

I've got some once fired 45 colt cases headstamped A P (which I think is Armscor Phillipines). I've done some reading on here and other places about the quality of Armscor brass, some people say throw it straight in the trash and others say its decent brass.

Does anyone have any actual experience with reloading Armscor brass? I plan to reload these as black powder cartridges and I'd like to know if I'm going to run into problems with the brass itself that aren't worth the effort.

(In case anyone is curious - 30gr of swiss 3F and a 255gr pure lead RNFP - target load)

I've been reloading starline brass with this same load and a more powerful hunting/defensive load (38gr swiss 3F and the same bullet), no problems at all but I've got no experience with Armscor brass.

Loaded about 25K pieces of Armscor the past year, 99% of that new brass. Absolutely nothing wrong with it other than dimensions. They didn't get the word that modern 45 Colt has a slightly different extractor grove and rim dimension......so consequently Armscor does not fit in every single shell plate or shell holder on the market. For example, it fits in Dillon stuff.....but not Mark 7 stuff. Other than that, I've got no issue with it, and if it fit in a Mark 7 shell plate, I'd buy more. I've also reloaded plenty of it and had no issues either.

 

[Demi-human]

Not for 45 Colt, but my experience is…
A P, good.
Armscor, good.
A USA, bad. Very bad. I do just throw these out. Kinda sad really, says USA right on ‘em. But I haven’t seen any in a while.

Everything I pick up says Starline lately…

 

[CQB45ACP]

Not for 45 Colt, but my experience is…
A P, good.
Armscor, good.
A USA, bad. Very bad. I do just throw these out. Kinda sad really, says USA right on ‘em. But I haven’t seen any in a while.

Everything I pick up says Starline lately…

Don’t throw them out…if you get any 45ACP, throw them this way.

Couple dozen ready to load and more already loaded somewhere around here. They’re as good as any and reasonably popular given the number I have found.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

What I’ve observed is the A USA and A P stamps are a slightly higher percentage of either zinc or manganese and therefore a little more brittle but, it’s such a small difference in the alloy that the only way to tell is with an acid test. The higher zinc alloy will stain darker and closer to black and the higher copper alloy will stain less and closer to brown with a low molar hydrochloric acid etch. Hydrochloric acid will react with the zinc in the alloy but copper doesn’t react as well with hydrochloric acid so in a higher copper alloy you won’t see as much difference compared to a higher zinc alloy.

I can’t tell a difference in the press as far sizing resistance or neck cracking, and they all “seem” to last as well.

This is in revolver cartridges. Rimless I don’t bother retrieving after reloading so I can’t say anything about their longevity.

Edit to add: the brass with 1% manganese is harder to cut on the lathe than the higher copper but it is a small difference. Mostly a matter of how bad it chatters vs other alloys.

 

[CQB45ACP]

What I’ve observed is the A USA and A P stamps are a slightly higher percentage of either zinc or manganese and therefore a little more brittle but, it’s such a small difference in the alloy that the only way to tell is with an acid test. The higher zinc alloy will stain darker and closer to black and the higher copper alloy will stain less and closer to brown with a low molar hydrochloric acid etch. Hydrochloric acid will react with the zinc in the alloy but copper doesn’t react as well with hydrochloric acid so in a higher copper alloy you won’t see as much difference compared to a higher zinc alloy.

I can’t tell a difference in the press as far sizing resistance or neck cracking, and they all “seem” to last as well.

This is in revolver cartridges. Rimless I don’t bother retrieving after reloading so I can’t say anything about their longevity.

Edit to add: the brass with 1% manganese is harder to cut on the lathe than the higher copper but it is a small difference. Mostly a matter of how bad it chatters vs other alloys.

The more I learn the more I feel unqualified for this hobby
Wish I kept my chemistry set. (Remember those? Can’t imagine the liability insurance necessary to sell them today.)

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The more I learn the more I feel unqualified for this hobby
Wish I kept my chemistry set. (Remember those? Can’t imagine the liability insurance necessary to sell them today.)

I’ve only got about 42-43 years on you in this hobby - and I also have a degree in engineering - so don’t feel bad. The local pool supply store can also tell you what to use for copper analysis and sell you a handy little kit for the task. It might be science, but it ain’t rocket science.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I’ve only got about 42-43 years on you in this hobby - and I also have a degree in engineering - so don’t feel bad. The local pool supply store can also tell you what to use for copper analysis and sell you a handy little kit for the task. It might be science, but it ain’t rocket science.

I can still remember how to write an application for a search warrant

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I can still remember how to write an application for a search warrant

Sadly, 9-11 rewrote Amendment 4 to read, “…unless we feel like it or the subject is an enemy of The Bureaucratic Establishment.”

 

[EricBu]

I can still remember how to write an application for a search warrant

I think that's a lot easier now.....the justification is one line now..."because...homeland."

 

[Seedy Character]

I have 1000+ A P brass in .45 ACP and can tell no difference from other brass..

ANY .45 Colt, .44 Mag brass you don't want;
I do. Don't throw away.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Sadly, 9-11 rewrote Amendment 4 to read, “…unless we feel like it or the subject is an enemy of The Bureaucratic Establishment.”

I think that's a lot easier now.....the justification is one line now..."because...homeland."

I wish I could disagree. Heard a comic say “probable cause” is now “just because”

 

[ballman6711]

Don’t throw them out…if you get any 45ACP, throw them this way.

I will be in the Front Royal area the weekend of Dec 10th, and would be willing to meet you at Elite Shooting Sports if you need/want some 45acp or 9mm brass. I'm sure I could spare at least a few hundred of each, but they'll probably be mixed headstamp. I also use to hate when my brass would hit the wall and bounce in front of the line.

I lived in Gainesville about two miles from Cabela's for several years, and am familiar with Elite's location since I used to shoot there. Still have my range card in case I'm in the area and want to go for an hour.

Let me know if you're interested.

chris

 

[CQB45ACP]

I will be in the Front Royal area the weekend of Dec 10th, and would be willing to meet you at Elite Shooting Sports if you need/want some 45acp or 9mm brass. I'm sure I could spare at least a few hundred of each, but they'll probably be mixed headstamp. I also use to hate when my brass would hit the wall and bounce in front of the line.

I lived in Gainesville about two miles from Cabela's for several years, and am familiar with Elite's location since I used to shoot there. Still have my range card in case I'm in the area and want to go for an hour.

Let me know if you're interested.

chris

Great offer even if just to meet and shoot. But we’re headed up to my wife’s family’s place in PA for a week (at most I hope). If I don’t stay long enough I’ll have to go back for Christmas.

 

[ballman6711]

Great offer even if just to meet and shoot. But we’re headed up to my wife’s family’s place in PA for a week (at most I hope). If I don’t stay long enough I’ll have to go back for Christmas.

Fair enough. I'll be available on the 11th (have a baby shower to attend on the 10th) if things change for you.

And I saw your other post about trading cigars for primers. My father enjoys cigars so I could justify a few primers for a few good cigars!

chris

 

[Logan5579]

Loaded about 25K pieces of Armscor the past year, 99% of that new brass. Absolutely nothing wrong with it other than dimensions. They didn't get the word that modern 45 Colt has a slightly different extractor grove and rim dimension......so consequently Armscor does not fit in every single shell plate or shell holder on the market. For example, it fits in Dillon stuff.....but not Mark 7 stuff. Other than that, I've got no issue with it, and if it fit in a Mark 7 shell plate, I'd buy more. I've also reloaded plenty of it and had no issues either.

I have a Lyman Ideal single stage press. Yesterday I sized/de-primed and expanded the case mouth on 40 of the A P stamped cases (right after running 50 starline cases through the press) and I couldn't tell any difference in the feel as I worked them. I can tell visually that the case rim is a bit less substantial than the starline but my shell plate didn't object to them. I intend to load the Armscor cases with a black powder target load so pressures will be low and as long as it performs well, I'll reload it with the same load until I see signs I've worn it out. I'll use my starline cases for my heavy black powder load.