Brass cartridges for Sharps percussion carbines?

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Rachen

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Remember I was pondering about what rifle or carbine to get? Well, here are the real difficulties. I was very interested in the Enfield, but the replicas are not rifled with progressive twist, as they were in the originals, so they won't be as reliable as you hear in the accounts from the War For Southern Independance.

I am looking at a Sharps percussion carbine in .54 caliber, and IAB seems to make a decent model.

On their website, they carry "brass shells" for percussion carbines in .50 and .54 calibers. Aren't they supposed to use paper cartridges only, or am I missing some things here?

If I am getting this correctly, the breechblock, when it is closed, should "shear away" the back of the paper cartridge, thus opening the flame channel?

Do they actually use brass casings for the percussion carbines, because evidently, these casings have a tiny hole in the rear that is supposed to align with the flash channel and the musket cap?

The Sharps seem to be a really good hunting gun, and for target shooting as well.
 
You are right about the Sharps rifles & carbines being that they were loaded with either a linen or nitrated paper wraped case with powder & conical bullet.

I know the Smith Carbine used a brass case that was preloaded with powder & bullet & acted as a gas seal when the weapon was closed & fired with a percussion cap.

I'd have to do some searching to find out if any other carbines were designed similarly.
 
Interesting..
It looks as though it takes the place ot the paper cartridge totally, same size as the bullet & all.

It would make carrying a bit easier but I wonder how easy it would be to remove the fired case.
 
Rachen...
New guy here..I gotta speak up...
I have an IAB 1863 Sharps rifle...I like it but it's a P.O.S. !
Soft internals.. they wear out very quickly..
long's you don't mind replacing parts fairly often or paying a couple hundred bucks to get it tuned.. go for it..
IAB = It's Always Broke....!
If I were you, I'd get a Pedersoli or Uberti...(Pedersoli barrel)
I am..
Just my 2 cents...
Take it for what you think it's worth..
Good luck..
If I am getting this correctly, the breechblock, when it is closed, should "shear away" the back of the paper cartridge, thus opening the flame channel?
Click to expand...
Yup.. very simple and straightforward..

I make my cartridges using TOP cigarette papers..
532 gr Pedersoli boolit..with 100 gr. of ffg GOEX,,
When closing the breechblock, I figger I lose 'bout 5 mebbe 10 gr powder..
blow the paper tail and powder out.. cap it and shoot..
no paper residue, nuthin'...jus' thumb in another paper cartridge, cap an go..

one word of caution..
There is a chamber liner that is supposed to be free floating/moveable... make darn sure you clean and lube it every time else it will freeze up/sieze on you..It's intended to aid in providing a gas seal to the breechblock face..

Pops
 
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for my money

Save your money up and buy a Shiloh. I had an IAB never a problem but I did do a o-ring mod to the gas check also had the lock worked tro give me a 3 1/2 lb pull then case hardened the tumbler and sear. the whole thing cost me about 75$ this IAB had a fixed sleeve ( i bought it used). I also have a armi sport now that was a pc of S#^t. But I got it working. it to came new w/ a fixed sleeve.I do not shoot more than 100yrds. use 42 grn 3ffg w/ an NEI # 381 bullet weight 440. I use paper cart i roll form nitrated curler papers. my tubes fit flush w/ the back so there is no cutting of paper so there is no spilage of powder when you close the breach.
Pedersoli don't know but if i remember there prices have climbed up there to. So if I am going to spend good money on another gun it would be another Shiloh.
Now I am assuming an Armi sport and IABs are about 900$ now and the Pedersoli are about $1200. for $600 more I'd get a Shiloh.
Now for the Shiloh its the only way to go. Its made here in the USA. and the parts are interchangable w/ the original. If there is a problem you are sending it back to the mfg. for work. not to an importer or there dealer.:banghead:
 
I just got an IAB Sharps military for a birthday gift I would love to get some brass cases for it but don't know where to find them. The website posted above is in Italy. I did order a cartridge kit and a barrel band since the one on mine is missing. I think it is going to be a fun toy.
Sharps54calrifle.jpg
 
WELCOME TO THR POPS!:D

I have browsed many other forums such as the SASS, and many people complain about the quality of the IABs, although some in between claim that it shoots like a piece of clockwork.

I was also on the Dixie Gun Works comments site and the one guy that commented on the IAB said it was as perfect as it can be. HOWEVER, there was one Pedersoli that received pretty nasty comments, but after I read them twice, I figured, the Pedersoli guy probably isn't loading his weapon correctly.

One of the pet peeves of the Sharps carbine is that if you are not careful, powder can accumulate at the bottom of the breechblock, and somewhere down the road, it might go BOOM if a stray spark ignites it. I have read of accounts from both Union and Confederate armories during the War, of Sharps carbines exploding, sometimes causing the forearm wood to split, or the stock to separate from the gun itself.

With all the advice posted here, I am thinking whether I should either get a Pedersoli or a Pietta Smith carbine, since I need a good single shot carbine both for long range target shooting as well as hunting in heavy brush and undergrowth. It must have enough power and reload fairly quickly, therefore I must have it breechloading, and at or above .50 caliber, but it has to be traditional, and I absolutely love blackpowder over anything else.

Like Mr. Turner Edward Kirkland once said, "this smokeless thing is probably just a fad that will go away soon":D

For hunting and non-historical events, I was even thinking of doing some anachronistic adjustments to the carbine. Cabelas carry a really nice red-dot scope that can be mounted on the barrel and has a limited? eye-relief, meaning you don't have to press your eye to it and possibly get "scope-eye" from recoil. Now this may sound mall ninja-ish, but the red dot is possibly one of the best things ever invented when it comes to hunting.

So, now I am thinking... Pedersoli Sharps or Pietta(Smith). I am glad Pops told me about the finish on the IAB, because having a gunlock that is not hardened is kind of like planning to drive a Jeep in rough hill country with "urban paved road" tires. You won't function very long and it might be embarrassing as well.

A few questions though:

POPS: How old is your IAB?
TIMC: Have you fired that beauty yet?

Thanks so much.
 
Thanks for the welcome there Rachen..
rachen said:
POPS: How old is your IAB?
Click to expand...
[BD] 1994

I gotta go with Sharps59 advice.. Go with a SHILOH..
I just cruised the Uberti, Pedersoli, Shiloh, IAB etc sites..
The Pedersoli and Uberti prices are REAL close to SHILOH...:what:
I'm thinkin' talkin' this kind of money..a couple hunnert more ain't squat...:cool:


Pops
 
TIMC: Have you fired that beauty yet?
Click to expand...

Not yet, just got it yesterday. I ordered everything I need last night. I should be able to hit the range in about a week so for now I just have to be happy admiring it!
 
The Pedersoli seems expensive on the Dixie website. I looked at another place, Regimental Quartermasters, and they have the same exact model Pedersoli for less. It actually sells for slightly higher than the IAB:)

I am doing a bit more research as of now. The "paper cutting" seems kind of messy, and would probably involve some loose powder falling into the breechblock nooks and crannies. When that happens, you just have to be REALLY careful, otherwise there will be certain unpleasantness down the road. Now I think using reloadable brass would solve that problem adequately.

Otherwise, I think a Pietta Smith would work pretty fine. I just came over from the NSSA site and these skirmishers absolutely LOVE using the Smith carbines.

I also went to the Shiloh site, probably one of the most beautiful websites I have ever seen, next to Dixie and Cabelas. Looking at THOSE models, one's gotta think: "Wow, that gives "custom made" a whole new definition".:D

Let me see now, I am just going to spend a little time to weigh the differences.......
 
Do they actually use brass casings for the percussion carbines, because evidently, these casings have a tiny hole in the rear that is supposed to align with the flash channel and the musket cap?
Click to expand...

I would like to have 10 or so just for grins. I have been searching for a place to buy them and all I have found so far is a place in New Zealand that sells them.
I sent an email to the folks at IAB but have not heard back from them. Anyone know where to get some here in the states?
 
Dixie Gun Works sells brass reloadable casings "for breechloading percussion carbines, .50, .52, and .54 calibers". In the paper catalog, it is located in the "Reloading Components" section.

I think they are meant to be used in ANY breechloading carbine, although I am going to give Jamie A. the gunsmith a call tomorrow to find out if I can use them in the Sharps. If they can, then that means the .50 version is made for the Smith carbine as well.
 
tubes for sharps

for practice i use plastice tubes.that you push in and pull out. leaving the bullet and powder. for comp. I use nitrated paper or charlie hahns carbord tubes. the way it works there is no cutting of the paper therefore no powder spilllage.
hope photos are attached not good at these things.
don't remember who does the plastic tubes but if you go to the NSSA sight someone can tell you.:banghead:
 

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rachen
I would say no to the smith tubes and sharps tubes being interchangable.
I have see the smith tubes first hand and they are diffrent than a sharps tube i have seen photos of, a smith shoots a . 513 if i am not mistaken and the tube pertrudes out of the breach. not sure how you would get a sharps brass tube out other than using a ram rod to push it out or some kind of pick to put in the flash hole and pull or if it jambs to the gas check how do you open the breach. .or is the gas check modified some how..
personnel if i want to use a brass tube i would go for a cart. gun. I do not like the action on a smith and suggest you handle one first.
Ps if anyone is going to do a lot of shooting in one outing w/ a sharps I would have an o-ring modification to the gas check done.
 
Quoting myself from an old thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3777918#post3777918


Some years back, I knew a Skirmisher who shot a Sharps in NSSA carbine matches. Here's how he achieved rapid, accurate fire:

He had a bunch of clear plastic tubes, 6 or 8 inches long and I guess half inch diameter. These served as his "cartridges" AND short starter combined.

He modified his Sharps bullet mould to produce a reduced diameter heel on his hard cast bullets (he always insisted on HARD lead) which just fit in the plastic tubes, so the bullets "corked" the tubes. (He had the other ends capped shut.) Of course the tubes held the powder charges.

On the line, he would hold the carbine at waist level, pointed downrange of course, action open. He'd grab a cartridge tube from his cartridge box and jam the bullet all the way into the chamber so it engaged the rifling, give the tube a little twist and shake to release the bullet and dump the (heavy!) powder charge, then toss the now empty tube on the ground. Cap her up and "...point her North. If twenty of 'em won't clear out all of Yankeedom, then I'm a liar, that's all."


As I recall, his Sharps struck me as a PITA, and few Skirmishers used them. He had to re-build the gas seal on the breech-block on a regular basis, as it would wear out. Of course, he shot A LOT. But I had always wanted a Sharps, until I met him.
Click to expand...
 
I have .54 cal Sharps bullets from Midway made by Montana Precission Swaging sized 542, 475 Grain Pointed Ringtail, and they sit loosely in the Pedersoli Brass Cases. I called the Possible Shop, and talked to the owner who informed me that with Perdosoli's mold I'd have to press the bullet into the brass casing. The casings are 1 27/64 long, od of 19/32, id of 1/2 down 1/4 Inch inside, which decreases to31/64 to the bottom. I'm fairly sure these cases are made for the Perdosoli Sharps only, as that's what is stated. He also has .54 Brass cases for the Armi Spot Sharps, packages of 5 for $25. I should mention that they also have the .451 cases for Pedersoli Sharps. Mike
 
Found it!The Possibles Shop!

Brass Cartridge Casings
For Armi Sport .54 Cal Sharps Only

The Armi Sport Sharps Rifle requires a Brass Cap. The Brass Cap is included with the package of 5 Brass Cartridges.
The Brass Cartridges are made for the Armi Sport - Infantry - Berdan (151 and 152) only.

Description Order No. Price Order Now
Brass Cartridge - .54 Caliber
Pack Of 5 Brass Cartridges & Cap 83-970
$25.00
 
I have a Armi Sport, it's very well made (fit and finish , mechanics, etc), and is non-gascutting, obviously made on a weekday after Monday and before Friday LOL. It's a handy rifle but, unless they're making other sizes now, they do not make a brass cartdrige for the carbine, the full size Bredan only. I pour direct from my flask and find it to be less messy with powder overflow than with the nitrate paper pre-roll's. Yes, you have to be careful about a secondary explosion if you don't take off the forearm when you clean the rifle after use. I've been told it collects there , never had the problem so it's just hearsay on my part. Th ONLY thing I don't like about it is after 5 or 6 shots, it's so fouled, you have to lubricate the breech unless you have 2 strong boy's and a mule to help you work the lever!!
 
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Thanks for the heads up. I have a Pedersoli Confederate Sharps Carbine in .54cal, and I was really surprised at the quality of the piece from fit & finish to accuracy. I get the feeling of holding a piece of history every time I pick it up. Even the trigger pull is just right for me! So, I will probably buy the Sporter Model Pedersoli Sharps, and I don't think prices are going to come down very soon, in fact because of what is being done to our Dollar by the anointed ones and off-shore banksters.
 
SlTM1, I can relate to the Friday--Monday production; could be why the Italians only mark the year of production on all their products? I called Jamie at Dixie to ask if CVA Nipple/Breach Plug Grease would be O.K. to use on the gas seal around the base. Jamie explained that the plate is suppose to move, and that when the round goes off the pressure moves the plate tight against the breach to prevent excess gas from escaping. My carbine doesn't have a movable chamber sleeve; which is why I invested in ten of the brass cases. I haven't had the chance to check out the brass yet, but the paper cartridges worked OK, but I learned I had to poke a hole in it if it wasn't long enough to be cut by the breach block, and for good measure I'd put a little powder to it if it didn't look right. After I close the breach I turn over the rifle to dump off excess powder--to make sure no powder gets into the fore-stock. Even pouring the powder charge directly into the breach will yield extra powder to be cleaved off and dumped. I am concerned with air pockets on the bullet end when using paper cartridges, which is one of the reasons I decided to invest in some brass cases. Jamie told me to use Bore Butter on the gas seal, and I intend to use it on the cases as well. To seal the hole in the bottom of the cases I'm going to use a 1/2 inch circle of Nitrated Cartridge paper; and all I'll have to do is poke a hole in it prior to loading with a hat pin or paper clip. I use a 1/2 inch by 4 inch dowel rod to seat the bullet. If worse comes to worse, I'll use a cardboard wad to hold the powder in the case; because at $5 a piece they are going to get used.
This is my first Sharps, and I decided on Pedersoli because of all the good remarks I hear and read. I wish it were possible to compare all the different makes in a hands on lookie--see! My apologies for the long winded post. Mike
 
reenactor wanting some Sharps advice

I am new to reenacting and could get a good deal on a IAB arms Sharps carbine for reenacting. Is there a place to buy the cartridges or am I better off just buying the paper rounds for reenacting?
 
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