Brass: Match Factory vs. Non-"Match". Is there a difference in brass?

[MDof2]

I can imagine this wormhole has probably been beaten to death but I can't seem to find any specific reference on it.

My question is: Is the factory brass case used in say Hornady "Match" brass, versus their American Gunner line of ammo the same brass case?

Is the brass case in the Winchester White Box ammo the same as the brass case as their "Match" line of ammo?

With regards to reloading, would you be hesitant to mix "once fired Winchester / Hornady Match" brass with "once fired Hornady AG or White box" cases? Not benchrest reloading, but PRS or hunting type / purposed ammo.
I reload, so I'm going to tumble, resize, trim, chamfer, deburr, etc. Does it matter at that point? Mix 'em and go, or keep them separate?

 

[Thomasss]

I don't know. I have used all sorts of brass over my life time of 40 some years of reloading and have yet to determine your answer. I am a firm believer in the quote from "Last of the Mohicans" "Aim small, miss small." I shoot some MOA target competition and hunt a lot. I rarely hunt or target shoot past 350 yards and have not found any difference. I have been told by those better than me, that target brass can be reloaded 12 to 20 times if taken care of and annealed. I routinely shoot mixed brass and think Hornady is a very high quality product. It's very hard to keep them all separate, especially when loading for several people and of the same caliber.

 

[sequins]

I suspect the brass may be made on the same machines but the main thing is variation lot to lot unless you neck turn. Even then capacities of h2o may vary from lots even of same exact headstamp much less mixed (even of same mfgr).

For hunting np, even without neck turning, but for top scores you'll want to sort lots.

 

[cfullgraf]

I can imagine this wormhole has probably been beaten to death but I can't seem to find any specific reference on it.

My question is: Is the factory brass case used in say Hornady "Match" brass, versus their American Gunner line of ammo the same brass case?

Is the brass case in the Winchester White Box ammo the same as the brass case as their "Match" line of ammo?

With regards to reloading, would you be hesitant to mix "once fired Winchester / Hornady Match" brass with "once fired Hornady AG or White box" cases? Not benchrest reloading, but PRS or hunting type / purposed ammo.
I reload, so I'm going to tumble, resize, trim, chamfer, deburr, etc. Does it matter at that point? Mix 'em and go, or keep them separate?

First, whatever shooting game you are looking to pursue, I'd look at what the top competitors are doing and using. They are the ones that have determined what is best for their shooting game that provides the most consistent results.

While brass for bargain priced ammunition and premium priced ammunition may be made on the same machine, you can be sure that the premium cases have been inspected for more consistency. While the premium rejects are not discarded, the rejects go into the standard ammunition production.

As an individual, you can inspect the cases and choose cases that meet your criteria. Those outside of your criteria may be discarded or used in blasting ammunition or sold to others.

Some manufacturers such as Lapua have a reputation of being cases that provide excellent accuracy. Of course, they command a premium price for the cases.

At least for my capability, I can see the difference between mixed head stamped cases and one head stamp cases. So, for lots of ammunition that I want as consistent as possible I use one head stamp for all the ammunition, I do not have the shooting capability to compete on the Bench Rest rifle competition level so that there is little need for me to get obsessive about consistency of my cases.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I suspect the brass may be made on the same machines but the main thing is variation lot to lot unless you neck turn. Even then capacities of h2o may vary from lots even of same exact headstamp much less mixed (even of same mfgr).

For hunting np, even without neck turning, but for top scores you'll want to sort lots.

A couple winters ago I burned up several hundred SMKs testing mixed brass, same headstamp, same lot#, prepped mixed brass, and prepped sorted brass.
My results showed neck turning combined with annealing effected group size more than sorting headstamp in 223.
But brass sorted by headstamp, neck turned, and annealed took the cake.
But it's time consuming.

 

[lightman]

I have not noticed any difference between Hornady and Winchesters Match brass and their other brass. But what I have used is a pretty small sample. I think the main difference is the bullet. And maybe how it is loaded.

You can make a lot of brass shoot well if you uniform the primer pocket, deburr the flash hole, trim it to a uniform length and sort it by weight and neck wall thickness. If I want my ammo to be as accurate as possible I use Lapua brass and do all of the above to it.

 

[Chuck R.]

A couple winters ago I burned up several hundred SMKs testing mixed brass, same headstamp, same lot#, prepped mixed brass, and prepped sorted brass.
My results showed neck turning combined with annealing effected group size more than sorting headstamp in 223.
But brass sorted by headstamp, neck turned, and annealed took the cake.
But it's time consuming.

I also add segregating by weight to the above once the brass is prepped. I weigh the homemade "match brass" and break them into either 50 or 100 piece lots. The brass on the upper and lower end becomes plinking/practice. That way I end up with a lot that has no more that "X" weight variance. The thought is that IF external dimensions are the same, but weight is different, then the internal dimension must be different. When I put together homemade "match brass" I'm usually doing about 500 rds at a time.

The factory match brass does have an edge in consistency both in weight and neck thickness. Also the primer pockets and flash holes are consistent and well formed.

 

[JFrank]

I cannot think of one competitor that builds a load with mixed headstamped brass.

 

[dh1633pm]

For consistency I use the same headstamp for my loads. Is there a difference between brass made by Winchester on Monday versus Friday? Lake City 73 versus 71? Don't know. Competitors will do what ever they feel the need to obtain the edge. For me, good enough is good enough. Consistent brass, bullets, powder, primer, plus variables (like trim length etc) plus a little love and I get ammo that shoots well enough for my purposes.

 

[Chuck R.]

I cannot think of one competitor that builds a load with mixed headstamped brass.

Depends on the competition.....my "close in" 3Gun ammo is a hodgepodge of headstamps, but it has to be "minute of zero points down" at 50 yds and under. My "long ammo" (out to 300) is all the same headstamp, annealed etc.

 

[Walkalong]

My "long ammo" (out to 300) is all the same headstamp, annealed etc

 

[buck460XVR]

With regards to reloading, would you be hesitant to mix "once fired Winchester / Hornady Match" brass with "once fired Hornady AG or White box" cases? Not benchrest reloading, but PRS or hunting type / purposed ammo.
I reload, so I'm going to tumble, resize, trim, chamfer, deburr, etc. Does it matter at that point? Mix 'em and go, or keep them separate?

IMHO, it would depend. For general hunting, no problem using mixed grass. If I was shooting past 400 yards, maybe. Comes down to the inherent accuracy of the gun and the shooters ability and whether the tiny amount of accuracy gained actually contributes to overall accuracy. I would think that measuring the case volume would point out how much difference the brass would make, this would go for same headstamp brass also.

 

[JFrank]

Depends on the competition.....my "close in" 3Gun ammo is a hodgepodge of headstamps, but it has to be "minute of zero points down" at 50 yds and under. My "long ammo" (out to 300) is all the same headstamp, annealed etc.

At 50 yards i don't think I would be too concerned either

 

[Laphroaig]

I've generally sorted my across the course brass by headstamp. Recently I broke out a batch of mixed LC to use for my 200 yd. ammo. 68 Horn HPBT and Varget. The 200 yd. stages are standing and rapid fire sitting at a relatively generous target, so bench rest accuracy was not a primary concern.

One match I regularly compete in is a 200 yd. reduced course so I have a chance to shoot the slowfire stage prone with a sling at a reduced target with my mixed brass load. I've shot some great scores with it, and I will confidently say that any 8's or 9's were not the fault of my brass. 20 shots prone with a tight sling is a test of stamina and eyesight as well as the accuracy of your rifle.

 

[Poper]

It all depends on the purpose of the ammo. General use or hunting to 100 yards? Chances are there will be no noticeable variations. Shooting competitions to 500 meters and beyond? The slightest variations can become dramatic enough to cost the competitor a match or a place in a match.
In metallic silhouette, a minor variation could mean several inches at 500 meters and that one ram that is missed because of that variable round, could cost the match.

However, if the ammo is for general use and/or hunting to 200 yards or in multiple guns of the same chambering, then my answer would be "no, it really doesn't matter." Just clean, check for defects, size, trim to length, deburr, chamfer and load per the manual. JMHO

 

[gotboostvr]

I cannot think of one competitor that builds a load with mixed headstamped brass.

My IDPA 38spcl load was mixed brass, but I know that's not exactly apples to apples.

 

[MDof2]

I had another issue that warranted a call to Hornady, so I double tapped with this question as well.

Straight from the source: They do not manufacture "Match" brass and then "everything else" brass. "Match" Ammo vs. American Gunner Ammo, vs. Hunter Ammo..... the brass comes off the same production line, same machine, same material, etc.
He took me on a stroll down History Ln. and I learned once upon a time, many years ago, they did make a 308 Match cartridge wherein the brass was head stamped "Match" but realized once it started being exported this create a whole host of other issues, so it was short lived.
As far as brass today, whether made by Hornady in their factory, or made by a supplier / contractor for them it is all made to the same dimensional specifications and meets the tolerances set forth by Hornady. Obviously differences in lots, production tolerances, etc. But brass case is a brass case generally speaking in their factory.

Finally, with regards to mixing (for example) 'match' versus non-match, once fired, etc. they don't recommend it. Will it kaabooom? Of course not. But the philosophy in reloading that will always remain a constant, is 'keep lot numbers together for consistency, management, and tracking, etc. etc.'. Much as we've always done for powders, primers, bullets, etc. Can you? Of course. Will you notice it at the range? Not unless you're bench rest shooting, or running strings out at 1500+ yards. And in either scenario, you're not playing with once fired brass. The school of thought in keeping lot numbers the same, don't mix 7x fired with 1x fired, etc. remains.

So, tldr: Match brass, same as American Gunner brass, same as Hunter brass, same as Black brass, same as Outfitter brass, same as keyword forum search interwebsnet I got brass in pocket, blah blah blah.

p.s. Printed copy of Volume 11 of the Hornady Reloading Manual is probably delayed closer to fall of 21. Maybe summer. Electronic copy via the Hornady Reloading App is avail and regularly updated in the meantime.

 

[dcloco]

Had a conversation with several people that carry badges, who were in a week long training course that required PRECISE short to long range skill with a longarm.

At the end of the course, one of the badges asked if I would like to purchase his "match" brass from the weeklong training session.

I inquired why he believe this was "match" brass. He ambled through some answer........

Reminding him, there IS a "308 MATCH REAMER" available, and assured him, that NONE of the production longarms present this week were so chambered. Further advised, once his brass was fired in his longarm, it was a "match" to his chamber.....and none other.

Kind of a quiet group of badges after that.

 

[MDof2]

For grins, I sent Winchester the same question, and got essentially the same answer.

Question: Question regarding the brass used in your different ammo. Is the brass case that is used in white box ammo the same as the brass case used in match grade ammo. https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Rifle/Match/S65CM vs. https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Rifle/USA/USA65CM Remove the bullet, powder, primer, etc. Does Winchester start with the same piece of brass to product either?

Answer:
Yes, every 6.5 Creedmoor product we manufacture has the same shellcase.

 

[Varminterror]

The warning from Hornady to not mix once fired brass sourced from match versus non-match ammo isn’t really about match vs. non-match, but rather truly about lot vs lot variances. This variance can occur even among the same model of ammo, simply purchased at different times - or even among reloading brass purchased from different lots. I’ve measured brass of the same reputable brand vary by 5grn from one lot to the other, in small 223rem brass, and more in larger belted magnum cases.

One downside, of course, is that buying as factory ammo, even matching lots of ammo may not coincide with matched lots of brass used to produce the ammo, and further, if you’re sourcing once-fired brass piecemeal over time, you effectively ensure you have multiple lots mixed into your resulting batch.

A trick I used, when I were younger and trying to make use of factory ammo brass converted into reloaded ammo brass, was to simply resell my factory ammo brass and buy consistent lot reloading brass. Today, most of my rifles have either never tasted factory ammo, or have never tasted reloads, as I simply don’t make use of those rifles in the same ways - if I reload for it, I always reload for it, if I don’t, I don’t. There’s some margin loss on selling the factory ammo remnants to buy new brass, but it beats water-sorting, neck turning, etc.