Break a law — lose everything (Australia)

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Bruce in West Oz

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Want to know how the government treats firearms "transgressions" in Australia — real or imagined?

Read the following. It's just an extract from a longer article.

The website is here:
http://home.winsoft.net.au/jemtrek/
Click on "Our Story" on the left-hand side to get the article.

It has been a very traumatic and soul destroying period in our lives for the
past fourteen months. For those of you who don’t know, we were subjected to a
politically motivated raid, under the guise of a “Firearm Dealer’s Licence Renewalâ€,
starting on the 30th April last year. We were subjected to over a week of police,
from a special squad, called the “Firearms Crimes Task Teamâ€, a squad I had
never heard of until then, but were attached to the firearms trafficing unit of the
major crimes squad in Sydney. These police, do NOT generally check dealers
licence renewals, this is up to the Licencing Sergeant of the local area command.

___ We could not conduct any business at all while this squad was here, and when
they had finished their audit over a week later, They initiated a search warrant on
the final day,_ and we were charged with two counts of “Unsecure Storageâ€,
charges which in any other civilised country, would be classed as mere
misdemeanours, but NOT in Australia. These charges also contradict an earlier
police Inspection of the Premises, when we were first granted our Dealer’s
Licence, so it is basically one lot of police's words against another.

__ _Subsequently, all my licences, both personal and dealer’s licence were
suspended on the 6th May 2003, and ALL OUR_ REGISTERED STOCK, BOTH
DEALER’S STOCK, AND MY OWN EXTENSIVE PERSONAL COLLECTION
WERE SIEZED, along with other firearms belonging to other individuals, some
rare pieces I had earmarked for my children, and others that were here for one
reason or other.

__ _ There were over 2,750 complete guns and in excess of_ 1,500 frames,
recievers and parts guns, confiscated by this squad, valued at somewhere
between $1.5 Million and $1.75 Million, and represents a lifetimes work for us.
This has effectively severely crippled Jemtrek, as all we were left with, were a few antique
firearms and a few parts that do not require a licence. We have had no income
to speak of, since April, fourteen months ago.

__ _I did not believe I was guilty of anything then, (and I still don’t now), except to run a
“Not Politically Correct†business. I pleaded not guilty in five different court appearances,
and these appearances were adjourned for one reason or another, then, three
weeks before the case was to be finally heard on the 3rd December ‘03, my
lawyers recieved a video tape from the prosecuting police. On viewing this tape,
my lawyers advised me to change my plea to guilty on these two charges, as it
seemed to be unwinnable the way the video was portrayed, and by changing the
plea, there was a very good chance of getting a section ten dismissal, of the
charges.

__ _This I did, and on the 3rd December our case was finally heard before
Magistrate Elizabeth Corbett, at Mudgee Court. I was also surprised and
shocked, at this appearance, to be charged with another three charges! Two of
these charges were identical to the first two, (Unsecure Storage), but under a
different section of the act. I was originally charged under section 40 of the 1996
Firearms act, and these two new charges were under section 39. The third
charge was being in possession of a “Prohibited Articleâ€, and after nine or ten
phone calls to see what all this was about, it was discovered that it related to an
inert practise grenade, that was attached to a mint Mauser 98 rifle. These inert
grenades were formerly classed as accessories, and the act has been changed
since, to now make these prohibited, and not many people know about this.

__ _Under instructions from my lawyers, I pleaded guilty to the now five
charges, (just to get it all over with, so we could get some sort of normality back
into our lives, and relieve the stress levels). I was subsequently found guilty on
all five charges, and fined $100 on each charge. This is not so bad, but under the
NSW Firearms act, if you are convicted, you automatically lose
all firearm licences for ten years, and your firearms are forfieted
to the crown, with NO compensation.

__ _We were hoping for a section ten dismissal, where, the charges are
proven, but No conviction is recorded, and your licences and stock can be
returned to you. This was not to be. We immediately lodged an appeal, at the
severity of this sentence, which if the conviction was upheld would mean
the total destruction of all our personal property, and the ruination of our
lives.

__ _Our appeal was heard in Dubbo court on Thursday 19th February 2004
before Judge Geoffery Graham. After a very harrowing morning, the prohibited
article charge was dismissed under a section ten, BUT, the “Unsecure Storageâ€
convictions stood. This means we have exhausted all legal avenues of appeal,
and means that ALL our personal and business stock is forfieted to the
crown, and these rare and valuable pieces will be squashed and destroyed,
and the total ruination of our business and our lives. I believe our fate was
sealed months before, even before we were first raided, _they wanted us, because
we were seen as a threat to the Governments' stability. They certainly pulled out
all the stops to nullify the perceived threat. It was like using an atomic bomb to swat a fly.

__ _Our lawyers and myself, had_ immediately written to the Commissioner of
Police, & the Minister For Police, along with a couple of other politicians, that
could have helped,(if they so wished), to see if he, (the Minister), can order some
of our items to be returned to another dealer, but I am not at all hopeful of any
joy there, as we already tried this twice before the case was heard. There was
some extremely rare pieces amongst these, including Western Australian
Marked Police1892 Winchester, two Pentridge jail 1873s, Trapper carbines, a
very vast Winchester collection which entailed almost all models, Colt Lightnings,
and an extremely rare WW1 sniper rifle, the only existing one known of this type,
besides some very rare and valuable shotguns, and Martinis. There were even
60 or 70 registered antiques, which I had bought, that were already registered.
Some of these included 1839 Muskets 1844 Yeomanry carbines, pattern 1853
Enfields, and Martini Henrys, which did not even have to be registered but were.

__ _Under the Governments policy, these will be all squashed and
destroyed. Even guns that belonged to other people, that were here for safe
keeping or on consignment, will suffer the same fate. This is all part of the
Government’s existing policy of disarming the civilian population, under
the guise of a “safer communityâ€. We are just the start of a massive witch
hunt, and an ongoing persecution and harrassment of all gunowners,
harking back to the days of Nazi Germany.
Click to expand...
 
Well, Bruce, that one line says it all....

"....which in any other civilised country, would be classed as mere
misdemeanours, but NOT in Australia."
************************************************************

John Howard and his minions and minders have perpetrated a tremendous injustice against us all.:fire:

Ugh! A week of listening to that Rhiannon beach and now this.:barf:
 
Oh. My. God.
Is Howard P.M. for life? Are ALL of the politicians down under anti? Is there not ONE GOOD MAN you can have run for office and reverse the trend? (And offer pardons restoring things to right?)
Japanese shogun Ashikaga Yoshimasa would be so proud!
 
Man, that is APPALLING! So now you return to the honored status of your country's "Founders:" criminals. I'm afraid I'd either be fomenting outright revolution, or making plans to leave Australia for America, where the threats are the same, but not quite as far evolved.

Those people are a crime against humanity. :fire:

TC
TFL Survivor
 
This should be a lesson to other gun owners Down Under - instead of turning your guns over to the authorities, perhaps you should consider using them instead. :(
 
I'm not defending Howard here; but he's about as pro-gun as an electable politician can be.

Any "gun debate" in Australia has degenerated to the point where you can openly say "yeah, I want to take everyone's guns". With the public mostly very much against gun ownership, if Howard didn't act this harshly he'd be thrown out of office.


If it makes you feel any better, Bruce, I figured the US would be as bad as Australia, if everyone here voted. The real clowns vote in lower proportions here.

BTW - of my top 10 "Why I'm glad I don't live in Australia" points, gun control wouldn't even be in the top 10.
 
It sounds like Australia has become a place where you've lost your freedoms, and the majority of the population is accepting and welcoming it.

In my opinion a revolution in this case would be forcing the will of the minority upon the majority, which is something I have a hard time supporting.

If you can, organize an effort to inform people and try and change their minds. If that doesn't work, it sounds like it's time to pack up and emigrate.
 
The majority/minority thing should not be a consideration in what you consider to be right or wrong, nor your rights to not have wrong done to you.

Remember, the Holocaust was "democratic" persecution of an unloved minority of people. (Not comparing the two; but providing it as an example of majority vs. minority).

This might bum you out further; but the US, while better than Australia, is sliding down the s****er at an astounding rate. Australia, while a hellhole, seems somewhat stable. Maybe (puke), it's all those years of Howard stemming the tide; but Australia is really not much more a union-run eco-marxist police state than it was 10 years ago. I think they've even tossed out a lot of the "stores can't be open past 5PM or on weekends" garbage, although I don't know if my view of that is more a Queensland-centric than a national thing.

The laws really just reflect an erosion in the belief of the populace that they're human beings rather than livestock and property of the state. The buy-in of the most oppressive laws, including by the victims, is astounding. The guy who just had his store ransacked would likely have viscerally defended the law's justification and purpose 5 minutes before it hit him.
 
Any bets on how many of the rare pieces "disappear" between the JBT's station and the crunching machine? How about claiming loss due to theft on your next tax filing?

When you are ready to emigrate, I've got an empty apartment in Florida you can use while looking for employment over here...
 
That's like bulldozing the Louve because you don't like Parisians. An atrocity on a grand scale and a horrific thing to do to a family. Destroying art and history in the name of control. Even the National Sociallist Party was more subtle. I guess they feel since they aren't "profitting" from the confiscation it somehow makes it better. :fire: :cuss: :banghead:
 
This came from a friend in Australia

It looks like I won't be able to keep my sword ( doesn't worry me ). But as for my crossbow, I'll have to join a bowhunting club. There is one about 20kms from my house, that I was considering joining a few years ago. And if I go and join it, I'll be able to keep my crossbow ( as long as I store it properly, and I'm not a "prohibited person" (criminal) which I'm not ), and even buy more crossbows if I want. But I noticed another part. Here it is:


Sale of Swords & Crossbows
From 1 July 2004, vendors must keep records of whom they sell swords and crossbows to and for what purpose the purchaser intends to use the purchased item. These records must be kept for 3 years after the sale, and made available to Victoria Police upon request.
Vendors must record the following information:
* Appropriate and current identification from the purchaser;
* Details of any exemption or approval the purchaser has; and
* A description of the sword or crossbow being purchased and its proposed use.

So I'll have to show them I'm a member if I want to get another crossbow. With all these storing regulations in that PDF file I sent you, I think all those don't apply if you are a member of one of these hunting groups. ( My crossbow as a extremely badly frayed string, so I'll need to get another one, and I want to get a bastard string for it too. That's an accessory you can get so it's easy to put the string on and off the bow part of the crossbow. I left it on because I couldn't get the damn thing off with my own strength, and that's what caused the string to get frayed so quickly, because it's not supposed to eb stroed with a string on it because the string doesn't like being under pressure for a long period of time. )
Click to expand...

So it looks like OZ govt. is trying to put its subjects into pre-medieval state of readiness...can serfdom reintroduction be far behind?
 
[Insert stream of vitriol lewd and vicious enough to make a sailor weep]
*wheeze* I have no idea how anyone could have 1.75 MILLION dollars worth of their (and others') possessions simply.. stolen from them. The very idea is unfathomable, that a bunch of jack-booted scum-sucking, bottom-feeding, ninth-layer-of-Hell-spawned fascist thugs could just waltz in, stuff a bunch of papers in your face, and destroy your life. It reeks of 1984, to me.

And there's not an ounce of outrage from the public. Not a care in the world that one of their fellow "citizens" had nearly two million dollars worth of his possessions stolen, his livelihood destroyed, and then been slapped with fines on top of that. People are disgusting.

</rant>

~Slam_Fire
"I don't trust bureaucrats."
"Who do you trust, then?"
"Only the people that earn it." ~Myself and a friend.
 
Oleg: If you were to check the level of taxation and surveillance and regulation over every aspect of life (that would be impossible in medieval times) a serf's "laws" would actually be far preferable to the current state of affairs.

We live better than "serfs", because of production technology, not because we are more free.
 
This is the future of the US if we aren't careful. Indeed it is the PRESENT in many states. Australia is no longer a free nation. I'd advise anyone still there to get out. Certainly get your gun collections out, even if you have to pay a tramp steamer from Indonesia under the table to do it. The pirates may only take some of your iron--the government will take it all.
 
I hate to say this but I do wonder what would happen if Indonesia was taken over by militant Muslim extremists who started invading large portions of the down under. I can't imagine Australia's tiny military has any hope of defending so much coastline and remote territory. Things have a way of working out, and a nation idiotic enough to disarm its own citizens probably won't be around very long.
 
One of the lessons for all of us is:
be VERY careful of any plea bargain in any firearms-related case.
When you're targeted in a high-profile prosecution, there ARE NO SAFE PLEA-BARGAINS.
 
_they wanted us, because
we were seen as a threat to the Governments' stability.

And that's a bad thing? Sounds like they waited too long.
 
Patent, regardless of his signature line, has given us all some VERY good advice. When you have been targeted by the prosecutors, there are no safe harbors in plea bargains. I would venture to say that you would be running some serious risks if you have an attorney who wishes to take the "easy" way out.

FWIW,

emc
 
Well, Battler makes some good points....

"I figured the US would be as bad as Australia, if everyone here voted. The real clowns vote in lower proportions here."
************************************************************

You know all those folks in the U.S. who are too amotivated to learn anything about their government or the platforms of the parties?

Their sort are required by law, under threat of a fine and conviction, to appear at the polls and accept a ballot in Australia.:eek:

They may then choose not to vote by marking the ballot "informal", but any other non-vote writing is considered an offence. :scrutiny:


************************************************************
"BTW - of my top 10 "Why I'm glad I don't live in Australia" points, gun control wouldn't even be in the top 10."
************************************************************

Oppressive gun control currently stands out at the top of my relatively short but growing "Why I'm sorry to live in Australia" list.



************************************************************
"The laws really just reflect an erosion in the belief of the populace that they're human beings rather than livestock and property of the state. The buy-in of the most oppressive laws, including by the victims, is astounding."
************************************************************



Remember, Battler, the above syndrome extends to a lot of those folks in the U.S. who support the Kerry creature.

Yes, I know the Bush option isn't all that savory, but perhaps choosing it will allow us to build on the momentum the RKBA movement has created since the end of the Clintons.
 
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