Brenneke slugs vs Level 3A Ballistics Vest
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627PCFan
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Neither, however impact trauma would still be signifigant-
627PCFan
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jmortimer
Member
The Brenneke slug may not penetrate but will at least incapcitate and possibly kill the BG/victim. The flex in the vest will extend some inches - 4" ???- what ever tissue behind that will get damaged. Read a story about a SWAT officer hit by a Brenneke Slug and died as a bone (rib or strenum or collar bone) was broken and penetrated his heart. The Box-O-Truth tested a soft Foster style slug and still left quite an impression behind the vest. The Brenneke hard cast slug would not flatten out and would "penetrate" - i.e. push into the victim much further. For sure the bg/victim would be incapacitated even if they lived which they probably would.
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The Deer Hunter
Member
I think it's a good indicator, as real world situations are never in ideal conditions. I was surprised that the brenneke didn't go through, however I understand why it didn't.
Aim for the head.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Head, Schmead. I doubt anyone hit solid in the armor with any Brenekke will pose much of a threat for a good long while.
Blunt Force Trauma.....
Blunt Force Trauma.....
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
There was an entry team in Florida that decided to try negotiation again after a slug went through their ballistic shield. I believe it was a brenneke hard cast.
I don't know what the shield was rated, but assume 3 or better.
I don't know what the shield was rated, but assume 3 or better.
Marty183
Member
FWIW, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of any slug to a vest...Especially a Brenneke.
I've settled on the Federal Tactical low recoil foster slugs as primary. They penetrate less than OO buck (by Federal's tests) and I only have to worry about one projectile. I am quite sure that armor or not I will get a stop with a good hit.
I carry Brennekes on the butt cuff for the woods where bear or moose is more likely to be a problem.
I carry Brennekes on the butt cuff for the woods where bear or moose is more likely to be a problem.
jojo200517
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I would be interested to see what the Black Magic magnums would do, they sure make the KO's look weak sauce.
jmortimer
Member
I have a feeling the Brenneke Black Magic would put a hurt on you no matter what kind of protection you had on. A .70 plus caliber hard cast. Wow.
Evil One
Member
Getting hit by a Black Magic would be like walking out in front of a bus.
It MAY not penetrate, Im not convinced of this, but it would pulverize everything behind where it hit.
Jim
It MAY not penetrate, Im not convinced of this, but it would pulverize everything behind where it hit.
Jim
627PCFan
Member
" imagine sabots with a smaller frontal surface area and higher velocity would puncture armor like most rifle rounds.'
I thought so too, and popped off a Remington Copper Saboted slug into 2 back to back old telephone books (dry) from 5 feet. The hollow point shrunk down on impact and turned into a pseudo-FMJ rather than expanding pedals.
I thought so too, and popped off a Remington Copper Saboted slug into 2 back to back old telephone books (dry) from 5 feet. The hollow point shrunk down on impact and turned into a pseudo-FMJ rather than expanding pedals.
Brenneke slugs are swaged lead and are softer than hard cast, let alone heat treated hard cast like Dixie Slugs.
Wingnut13
Member
I like slugs......
glazer1972
Member
A Brenneke 2 3/4" 1 1/4 oz. Heavy Field Slug will penetrate two 30# freon cans filled with water.
jmortimer
Member
The use both swaging and casting and they use a hard alloy. So it depends on what product what process is used. Essentially they are a "solid" slug made with a hard alloy and will not flatten out or "pancake" like a foster slug. You can see their slug casting machine on page 3 of the PDF linked from their site. That is why they out penetrate most every slug except the Dixie slugs. http://www.brennekeusa.com/web/pdf/World-Famous_Brenneke_Firm.pdf
I stand corrected.
jmortimer "The use both swaging and casting and they use a hard alloy. So it depends on what product what process is used. Essentially they are a "solid" slug made with a hard alloy and will not flatten out or "pancake" like a foster slug. You can see their slug casting machine on page 3 of the PDF linked from their site. That is why they out penetrate most every slug except the Dixie slugs."
A couple of years ago I enquired about the BHN rating of Brenneke's top of the line slugs. BrennekeUSA declined to answer. I suspected the alloy used was harder than unalloyed lead, but did not think the Brenneke design was cast.
jmortimer "The use both swaging and casting and they use a hard alloy. So it depends on what product what process is used. Essentially they are a "solid" slug made with a hard alloy and will not flatten out or "pancake" like a foster slug. You can see their slug casting machine on page 3 of the PDF linked from their site. That is why they out penetrate most every slug except the Dixie slugs."
A couple of years ago I enquired about the BHN rating of Brenneke's top of the line slugs. BrennekeUSA declined to answer. I suspected the alloy used was harder than unalloyed lead, but did not think the Brenneke design was cast.
jmortimer
Member
I think you may be right - the Black Magic "Style" may be swaged it is hard to tell. I could not find any info any BHN of the slug but I did find numerous references to Brenneke using a hard lead alloy. From what I've seen in testing and field results it must be. I did use the tern "hard cast" loosely - they may be swaged but the are "hard" as compared to pure lead. As you well know the Dixie is "hard cast" at 30 BHN or so. Unless James/Dixie brings back the "Tusker" I'll use Tri-Ball and Brenneke Slugs because I like smoothbores.
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