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Bringing back a pistol from Iraq

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Andrew Rothman, Mar 11, 2004.

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  1. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    My pal seems to have acquired a Iraqi-manufactured pistol while stationed there (see http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69329). What are the issues with bringing it into the states?

    It's not an "assault weapon" -- it is a Beretta clone with an 8-round magazine. Will he face any issues other than airline regs?

    Any vets have any idea?

    Thanks!
     
  2. AJ Dual

    AJ Dual member

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    From what I gather from numerous threads, that in this PC day and age, it's nearly impossible. The only official examples of "bring backs" are items requisitioned for unit and base museums and display cases.

    I've heard stories that our service people have even been given hard times about enemy bayonets on occasion.

    I'm sure that there are plenty of vets and active/reserve members who can fill you in on the details.

    Some reward for putting your own butt on the line for your country, oft while being in charge of multi-million dollar weapons systems that can level entire city blocks, huh? :rolleyes:
     
  3. Ed Ely

    Ed Ely Member

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    Those machines are considered "war trophies" and as such can be
    brought into the US of A by our military. The BATF or ATF has a special
    form that one can obtain, fill out and register the machine and it is
    yours. It also includes full auto.

    I edit to include these sites:

    http://www.dior.whs.mil/forms/DD0603.PDF
    http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r608_4.pdf
    http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/rr_55590.txt
    http://www.landscaper.net/listen.htm#USARV FACT SHEET
    http://www.transcom.mil/j5/pt/part4/dtr-part-4-409.pdf

    Edit for another update:

    Probably most of you have seen on the tube by late last PM, there
    were numberous GIs that belong to the Ky Air Guard that brought
    back AK47s and have been found out. They are going up for Court-Martial.

    My info above about the web sites is outdated. It did apply back in the "good ol' days" however.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2004
  4. Viking6

    Viking6 Member

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    ALERT! ALERT!

    Your bud better check himself. I THINK there is a General Order prohibiting that. I just read an article about a NG Company Commander from South Carolina and his First Sergeant that are being Court-Martialed for sending a weapon back. IIRC, The CO was going on home on an R&R and had his First Shirt mail a pistol home. Didn't make it through postal inspection. PC or whatever, it ain't nowhere near like WWII when everybody almost brought Mausers, Lugers, etc. etc. home. Again, he better check with hsi Chain of Command or he'll be in deep kimchi.
     
  5. OEF_VET

    OEF_VET Member

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    Your friend, being a diplomat and not a soldier, is most likely exempt from General Order #1. GO1 is the catch-all order for all deployments lately, which prohibits things such as alcohol, pornography, marrying local nationals, war trophies, etc. As such, he may be able to bring his pistol home with him.

    If nothing else, he could possibly bring back the grip and slide.

    Frank
     
  6. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    Aha. Thanks for the heads-up.

    Based on your comments, I found this:

    www.afrc.af.mil/hq/citamn/apr03/wartrophies.html
    Furthermore, the Air Force, at least, says "no" to guns:

    Also this:

    http://www.ausa.org/www/ilw.nsf/0/364b0cc642cf1ed485256d6c0067df58?OpenDocument&AutoFramed
     
  7. Viking6

    Viking6 Member

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    OEF_VET, the guy in the picture in the link looked like an Army specialist to me.
     
  8. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    OEF_VET:
    I don't know - he's been "loaned" to the Pentagon and serves under the Bremer heirarchy. I guess I'll advise him to check carefully.

    Thanks to all for the excellent advice.
     
  9. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    Got a message from my pal -- he says he is indeed not subject to UCMJ.

    Now we're just talking about:

    * Importing a non-banned firearm from a foreign country
    * Traveling on an international flight with a firearm

    Anyone ever do this?
     
  10. Viking6

    Viking6 Member

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    mea culpa, mea culpa. I was in the ready, fire, aim mode. The picture was taken by your friend not of your friend. A la Roseanna Danna Danna or whatever "never mind". I have no earthly idea what restrictions are on other than military. Looks like a dollar chasing a dime though.
     
  11. Chindo18Z

    Chindo18Z Member

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    Your friend falls into one of three categories:

    1. If he is a military service member (regardless of detached assignment to State Dept), the previously posted links and orders apply. To bring a firearm home is going to require that it be brought back as a UNIT trophy or training aid NOT as a personal prize. Even as a unit trophy, there may be a requirement to "DeMil" (render inop by welding) the weapon. All troops are routinely searched by Military Police and US Customs (at both point of departure and port of entry back in the States). Mail is also scanned, checked, sniffed, searched. The authorities have gotten very good at this and have already seen through some unbelievably ingenious attempts.

    2. He has diplomatic status and can bring something back thru diplomatic pouch...highly unlikely 'cause those folks know who they are and don't have to ask. They also have a basic load full of rules, policies, and procedures. "Hey...I think I'll toss my career for a cheap pistol...".

    3. Your friend is legally a "tourist" or working for an NGO (non-governmental organization like the Red Cross, UN, Hamsters Without Borders). In this case, he is required to follow the same BATF importation procedures as any other US Citizen returning from abroad. In a nutshell, he fills out required import form, shows proof of ownership, and submits said paperwork at least 90 days prior to intended return to USA. If you have a really sad story and are capable of writing a coherent explanation of the same, the servicing BATF office MAY expedite the 90 day process down to about 3-4 weeks (maybe...BTDT).

    The days of bringing trophy firearms home are long over. I am personally aware of the legal troubles certain friends have reaped by trying to beat the system. Tell him to buy several nice oriental rugs. They are a MUCH better value (whether for keeping or for resale) and infinitely easier to bring back. One for his floor, sell the others, use the profit to buy all the nice guns he wants after he gets home!
     
  12. "yote"

    "yote" Member

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    It sounds like an Egyptian Helwan Pistol.
     
  13. mattHP

    mattHP Member

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    Screw the legal way, if he was there, he deserves whatever he can get back, and the ways to get it back are up to his imagination. I had a "hypothetical" friend who "might" have sent 2 back last year. One was disassembled and sent in a box before mail screening procedures were very strict, and they were really only looking for AK sized packages at that point. Hypothetically, of course. The other "might" have been put inside a small radio/CD player and sent home. This would have been vulnerable to x-ray, but at that point, packages were being taken to the post office unsealed for inspection, so it had already been screened. When I came back through customs in Kuwait, everyone's baggage was thoroughly screened, don't even think about trying to sneak it through that way. But, I was never patted down, I never went through a metal detector, and I kept my issue pistol on me at all times. Thus, if you have brass balls, it seems like another way would be to drop it into a pocket and walk it through, letting the other members of your party walk through first so you can see what procedures are occuring, and dispose of it if it becomes necessary. Is it all legal? No. Do I care? No. Can I be trusted with a weapon? If not, I better hand off this Benelli dangling from my shoulder and get a flight home. And finally, the most important question to me: The Greatest Generation did it, why shouldn't I?
     
  14. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    It's a Tariq. See other thread.

    Anyway, he says that he is, as a FSO, not subject to GO1, that it was purchased, not "taken," and that he intends to import it normally.

    Not that that will be easy.

    Anyway, he is most concerned about having it there than bringing it home. Baghdad is a dangerous place.

    My friend never owned a gun before. We may have a convert!
     
  15. OEF_VET

    OEF_VET Member

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    Heck, maybe you can talk him into buying a bunch of them real cheap, importing them, and then selling them on THR for a reasonable profit. I'd buy one, as I'm sure a lot of other members would.
     
  16. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    If he runs into import restrictions (and he wants to stay legal). Would it be possible to "sell" it to a licensed firearms importer in the States and then have then resell it to him? Not sure about how the details of that work though. Might want to drop a line to AIM surplus or someone like that. Its probably the hard way to do it though.
     
  17. tcsd1236

    tcsd1236 Member

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