British police shoot suicide bomber at Stockwell station (merged)

[Randy in Arizona]

DMK

Dressing strange and being insubordinate to the police are now capital offenses?

Yup, under the wrong circumstances it has been for a long time. The constables didn’t know if this person was involved or not, but could not take the time to allow a bomb to be set off if they guessed wrong. This has served notice to the populace that the police are rather serious about stopping this Bravo Sierra right now! They have had (last I heard) 53 killed and hundreds wounded. I hope that the Mullahs will (after suitable ranting and wailing and gnashing of teeth) caution their flocks to OBEY EVERY ORDER GIVEN BY A POLICEMAN IMMEDIATELY! After all if you get blown away by a policeman instead of blowing yourself up, you don’t get the 72 virgin sheep or goats or whatever it was supposed to be.

 

[Norton]

Given that this is THR, it sickens me to go back and re-read all the cries of "good shoot" in this thread, particularly in light of the lack of facts on which to base that call.

In all fairness, given the speed with which information moves these days it's reasonable that a lot of those comments were made at the point at which it appeared that this person was a legitimate threat.

Given the opportunity to review the incident with the current information, I imagine that most of the "good shoot" comments would not be made. I would be amongst those folks.

That being said (tm), bad things happen when tensions are running high and police officers and military members have to make snap decisions that could have bearing on the life or death of multiple people. Sometimes they make the right decision, sometimes wrong. It would appear that in this case, they were tragically wrong.

We're the ones who have the luxury of Monday morning quarterbacking, those officers don't. If it had gone the other way and they had not detained/arrested/shot him and he had detonated a bomb, we would have equal numbers of critics saying that the police should have been more aggresive.

 

[enfield]

It appears that RWA (running while Arab) is a capital offense now in Britain.

There're quite a few people on this board that are just as scary as the terrorists and probably just as crazy.

 

[Biker]

Just another example of why the Ts are winning. Patriot Act, color-coded alerts that costs our economy millions, random searches in our subway system, Iraq, ....on and on. I'm sure that the Brit cops thought that they were saving innocent lives instead of taking one. A lose/lose for everyone.
Biker

 

[redneck2]

O.K.

So you're that Brit cop. You have every reason to believe this guy is a human bomb...and you still have the "fortitude" to tackle him

and some of you are going to condemn the cop??? You gotta be kidding. If I were Tony Blair, I find the biggest medal I could and give it to the cop

I absolutely can't believe you people. You sit here in the comfort of your home because somebody like this cop probably had every reason he would be blown to hell to save your sorry ass and still tackled this creep to save civilians.

If you're in London now.

If you're stupid enough to wear a heavy coat in the summer.

If you're stupid enough to then carry a backpack

and then stupid enough to run from the cops when they tell you to stop

and then stupid enough to jump a turn stile,

pal, you deserve five rounds to the head.

If we lost the war on terror it won't be because we shot one chimp in the head. It's because we didn't shoot a lot more.

It was "we gotta kill the Jews"...well, now it's Jews and Christians that support Jews...well, it's Jews, all Christians, and some non-Christinans. Well, now it's the Jews, Christians, Hindu's, Buddhists, and now Muslims that aren't our sect. Ok...now it's anyone that happens to be around when we set off a bomb.

You people just don't get it. They want to KILL you, your kids, your parents, your friends, your family. It's not about oil, it's not about being in Iraq, Iran, Afgahanistan, or any other country.

It is pure evil and hate. They'll kill anyone just to be killing someone.

 

[Mk VII]

"he was wearing a winter-type jacket in summer heat, which led the police to theorize that he might be doing so to conceal an explosive device under it."

Some of you have obviously never experienced what passes for summer over here.
I wear the same jacket all year round.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If you're in London now.

If you're stupid enough to wear a heavy coat in the summer.

If you're stupid enough to then carry a backpack

and then stupid enough to run from the cops when they tell you to stop

stupid enough to jump a turn stile, you deserve five rounds to the head.

Without a trial. Without committing a crimee. Without even being charged with a crime.

 

[RKCheung]

O.K.

So you're that Brit cop. You have every reason to believe this guy is a human bomb...and you still have the "fortitude" to tackle him

and some of you are going to condemn the cop??? You gotta be kidding. If I were Tony Blair, I find the biggest medal I could and give it to the cop

I absolutely can't believe you people. You sit here in the comfort of your home because somebody like this cop probably had every reason he would be blown to hell to save your sorry ass and still tackled this creep to save civilians.

If you're in London now.

If you're stupid enough to wear a heavy coat in the summer.

If you're stupid enough to then carry a backpack

and then stupid enough to run from the cops when they tell you to stop

stupid enough to jump a turn stile, you deserve five rounds to the head.

I don't believe the person was wearing a backpack and neither were the officers in uniform.

If you were a dark-skinned guy minding your own business when a mob of white guys came running after you during a time of high tensions and anti-Arab sentiment, wouldn't you run too?

They'll kill anyone just to be killing someone.

Which is why the good guys should avoid doing the same.

 

[redneck2]

Not if I didn't want to get shot in the head

What are they supposed to do??? Just let him go???

Then he sets off a bomb and you'll be the same ones screaming "they didn't connect the dots...they didn't do enough"

If you run from the cops (particularly in London today) you deserve to get whacked

Whatever it takes.

 

[RKCheung]

Not if I didn't want to get shot in the head

Perhaps getting shot in the head was precisely what he was trying to avoid.

If you run from the cops (particularly in London today) you deserve to get whacked

Whatever it takes.

That kind of attitude scares me more than any terrorist can ever hope for.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

Sometimes stupidity does kill. Yesterday it proved fatal in London.

 

[Kurush]

Link to story

Police identified the man as Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, and said he was a Brazilian citizen. Residents in the Tulse Hill section of London, near where de Menezes was first spotted by undercover police, said they did not know him.

"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005," the police said in a statement. "For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets."
[...]
According to the official version of de Menezes' death, police had been watching his apartment block as part of their search for Thursday's would-be bombers. When the man emerged, plain-clothes police followed him from Tulse Hill to the Stockwell station in south London.

Okay, this was a bad shoot. When he was said to have come from a house that was under surveillance that was one thing, an apartment block is something else entirely. Wearing a baggy jacket and running from the cops usually means that someone is a drug dealer, not a suicide bomber.

 

[Biker]

Redneck
I would not run from or shoot at cops - if I knew that they were cops.
Biker

 

[El Rojo]

Simply amazing. I still don't get this shoot first ask questions later mentality form our board members. How easy it is to condemn a group of people who don't look like you. Ah, don't run from the cops if you are Arab looking and you won't get shot. Oh wait, they weren't uniformed police. Well, he should have known and what in heck was he doing wearing a coat in the summer?

LOOK. BULKY COATED TERRORISTS!

Well again, he shouldn't have been Arab and running from the cops in London yesterday. Oh wait, he was Brazlian. Crap. You know it really doesn't matter how many excuses I try to come up for why it was ok to shoot this guy, none of them seem to work. I am not anti-cop and I understand if you have a reasonable and credible suspicion that a guy is a suicide bomber, you have to shoot. However, you need to be sure because if you aren't, here is where it gets you. In this case they might have waited a bit longer. Sorry, saying he could have been a terrorist and it is better to kill one innocent person for the potential saving of many more isn't going to make his wife, kids, and parents feel any better. People need to be held accountable for their actions. That includes the London Police or SAS or whoever they were. It also applies to the terrorists, which it appears this Brazilian wasn't one of the terrorists that needed to be held accountable. However if you ask a host of memebers here on our board the fact that he was dark and he ran makes him just as guilty as a terrorist and these same members try to justify his death as part of the War on Terror. Sorry, but the people that do this seem to be no friends of liberty to me.

 

[The_Shootist]

Wrong Man?

Its going to be a loooooong time before the Home Secretary gives those guys/that unit back their 00 prefix. I suspect stamping the wrong guys file XPD might have some serious ramifications if done so - er - publicly.

 

[El Rojo]

Some of you have obviously never experienced what passes for summer over here.
I wear the same jacket all year round.

These same people don't pay attention to the pictures and video coming from England either that show numerous police officers in coats as well.

HEAVY COATED BOMBERS! That one looks pretty dark, but it is the white one that appears to have the "bulky" appearance of a suicide bomb belt. Call in a 155 and get them both for the public's safety sake.

In all fairness, given the speed with which information moves these days it's reasonable that a lot of those comments were made at the point at which it appeared that this person was a legitimate threat. Given the opportunity to review the incident with the current information, I imagine that most of the "good shoot" comments would not be made. I would be amongst those folks.

Actually there were quite a few of us who said there wasn't enough information and questioned this situation from the get go. I think some people are inclined to think critically and question sources and there are those who believe everything they hear and see. These same people apparantly have no problem killing innocent people when it could potentially save lives. I say kill all gun owners because there is a chance they might kill somone with their assault rifles. If we don't kill them, when they kill someone with their assault rifles, people will be mad at the police for not killing the gun owners sooner.

 

[Rusher]

Apparently this guy was from Brazil......LINK

 

[hillbilly]

I've just gotten online for the first time today, and I've just read the Yahoo news latest on the man shooting in the London subway.

Because the guy who was apparently isn't connected with the bombing, it's a tragic killing.

But it's not the first time something like this has happened, either.



http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/pearl_harbor/pearl_harbor_3.asp


"Don't shoot!"

Vice Adm. William F. Halsey, commanding the Enterprise task force, had placed his ships on a war footing in November. Taking no chances, he had launched 18 Dauntlesses southwest of Kaula Island toward Pearl Harbor that morning. The SBDs found nothing remarkable between their carrier and the shore, but they flew directly into the Sunday surprise.
While the torpedo planes and level bombers struck the fleet, the A6M Zeros strafed the various air bases on Oahu to help suppress retaliation from the fighters on the ground (photo by John Dibbs).
The first "the Big E" knew of Pearl's peril was a frantic radio call from a young Dauntless pilot: "This is an American plane! Don't shoot!"

Over the next half hour or so, Japanese planes shot down five SBDs while American gunners downed a sixth. Three pilots and two radiomen were killed, and three more fliers were wounded.

It only got worse. After the carrier launched a futile search-strike that evening, the Wildcat escorts were diverted to Ford Island. In yet another snafu, gunners on the ground assumed that any airborne planes were hostile. Three F4F pilots were killed by "friendly fire." The Big E's revenge would be deferred for six months, but the debt was repaid with compound interest at Midway.

 

[docfubar]

I for one feel that this does sow that the brit's are serious about this. OK Granted even if the cops were not in uniform, you are on a public street, wearing bulky clothes, 4 guys start running up to you yelling to stop, there are a bunch of people all around you and you begin to run?

Even if the guy didn't have a bomb, even IF he was not connected to the bombings, he should have stopped.

What about the cop who shot the WRONG man? How do you think he feels now? Heck he was just following orders, but probably feels terrible now.

I am sorry but probably most of us the reaction was cool they are cracking down tough, now it's they were wrong.

It happened it's over, we will never know all the facts, just what the goverment and newspapers want us to know.

just my .02

 

[El Rojo]

Nice, comparing friendly fire casualties amongst soliders in a combat zone to domestic police (possibly military) shooting a foreign national for a mere suspicion of possible illegal activity is dead on. Since it happens to soldiers in the 1940's we should expect and accept that it is going to happen in modern society between free men and the government that is supposed to recognize their rights. I never thought of it that way Hillbilly, thanks. [/sarcasm]

 

[hillbilly]

El Rojo, I would say that the free men need to recognize that they are at war, even in their own cities, with an ideology and worldview so depraved that the last time free men encountered its likes, it meant overrunning and freeing concentration camps in Germany in the spring of 1945.

It's sad this man got killed.

But what will be even sadder is if this mistake is used as club and whip to beat the free men to the point that they won't be able to take the necessary action to defend themselves against the jihadist killers who want nothing less than the extinction of freedom, and for all men to live under sharia.

hillbilly

 

[Ross]

Google "Whack 'em and stack 'em" for a contrarian slant.
Cheers from Darkest California,
Ross

 

[Telperion]

I suppose one could say this is not entirely new. The British police have a history of extrajudicial killings/executions, especially in Northern Ireland.

As of late, visiting "The High Road" has left me with a desire to take a bath.

 

[RKCheung]

As of late, visiting "The High Road" has left me with a desire to take a bath.

Seems like the terrorists are indeed winning after all.

"So this is how liberty dies.. with thunderous applause."

 

[Kobun]

You don't run into the London underground today wearing a backpack or heavy clothing.
You don't run into a bank in the US wearing a ski mask, even in winter.
You don't gun your engine and aim your car, charging for a cop standing in the street, even if your going to turn away at the last moment.

Stupidity kills!
What the Brazilian guy did was acting like a total moron in that situation.
You can't blaim the cops, chasing the guy that runs into the underground when he is followed. Into the underground that in the last 15 days has experienced 10 explotions!
What did he expect to happen?
That they'd let him onto a train and wave good bye?

No. The cops had to act on the information they precieved they had.
Suiside bombers wearing explosives ON THEIR BODIES can have the detonator in their hand, and choose to blow themselves up anywhere.
When he boarded a train with people, the cops believed everyone was in jeopardy and acted to STOP THE PRECIEVED THREAT.