Hollow point ammunition was used to kill suspected suicide bomber.

[1 old 0311]

My Father said he used to cut a x on the FMJ at Guadacanal. Lots of Marines were doing it even if was against the 'rules.'


Kevin

 

[Kurush]

The word "dum dum" comes from the Dum-dum arsenal near Calcutta that first experimented with soft point bullets.

Cutting X's into the tip of FMJ bullets is a very bad idea. It's guaranteed to ruin accuracy and (depending on the hardness of the lead) can even cause the bullet to come apart inside the barrel.

 

[Art Eatman]

via google:

The town of Dumdum (1991 pop. 40,961), founded in 1783, has iron- and steelworks, glass and soap factories, and engineering works. In the 19th cent. its arsenal was the first to manufacture lead-nosed bullets that spread on impact, inflicting a tearing wound. In 1905, Great Britain acceded to the prohibition of dumdum bullets adopted by the first Hague Conference in 1899.

Art

 

[Chipperman]

This nonsense is like making a drunk driver serve a longer sentence for DUI of Vodka instead of Rum.

 

[ArmedBear]

This nonsense is like making a drunk driver serve a longer sentence for DUI of Vodka instead of Rum.

That is a good metaphor for a lot of laws here in California -- including "Assault Weapons" laws of course. I have to guess that MA is hardly different.

 

[Mk VII]

the true .303 dum-dum only had a short production run and surviving specimens are very rare.

 

[ghost squire]

I am 100 percent positive that it is legal to use expanding bullets on terrorists. We could not use them on Iraqi Republican Guard (legally), but we can use them on terrorists and "freedom fighters" who aren't technically working for the government, who aren't technically an enemy country's soldiers.

The Navy SEALS have been using hollowpoints for some time now, from what I've heard.

That article is so pointless and wrong in so many ways it makes me sick. Its idiotic on multiple levels.

 

[ArmedBear]

I am 100 percent positive that it is legal to use expanding bullets on terrorists. We could not use them on Iraqi Republican Guard (legally), but we can use them on terrorists and "freedom fighters" who aren't technically working for the government, who aren't technically an enemy country's soldiers.

The Navy SEALS have been using hollowpoints for some time now, from what I've heard.

That article is so pointless and wrong in so many ways it makes me sick. Its idiotic on multiple levels.

Since the Navy SEALS don't go on any missions in foreign countries, though, it doesn't matter.

 

[ghost squire]

No, of couurrsseee nooottttt.....

WINK




http://www.militarycity.com/valor/262985.html

 

[DT Guy]

"I say, Smithers, shoot that chap a bit, but not quite so hard; that's the ticket."


Larry

 

[Janitor]

I am 100 percent positive that it is legal to use expanding bullets on terrorists. We could not use them on Iraqi Republican Guard (legally), but we can

The United States never signed the Hague Accords which mandate the use of FMJ in war. We are not bound by those laws/treaties. If there's a law at all, it's a US law.

We don't use JHPs in war because we don't want "them" to start using JHPs on us.

(Please note that I never said anywhere that I thought any of this made sense)

-

 

[ghost squire]

I know we never signed it, but we abide by it strictly. And it never says that shooting terrorists with hollowpoints is illegal. Therefore we can, and we do, and we have issued units who specifically engage and kill terrorists and rebel, with hollowpoints.

To be more specific Speer Gold Dots in 9mm.

And who is them? Do you really think the Chinese are going to pay an extra billion a year to give their troops hollowpoints? Same for us, we don't care enough. LOL! And the terrorists? I'm sure if we don't issue hollowpoints that they won't either...

 

[Janitor]

I know we never signed it, but we abide by it strictly.

How does the fact that we "abide by it strictly" equate to -

We could not use them on Iraqi Republican Guard (legally)

?

Eveyone knows we abide by the accords - but we do it of our own volition. It has nothing to do with law.

-

 

[Crosshair]

I have heard that they sanded down the bullet tips in the En-Block with a file. Never heard of the X thing.

 

[ghost squire]

Janitor stop nitpicking, you and I both know that the US may as well be a signatory.

Its a given now that we abide by those rules, and deviating from them too much will be seen by the rest of the world as us violating the rules of war.

Sure we stray here and there but what country doesn't?

 

[crofrog]

Umm, that's when tazers and stun-guns work best. Especially when you are lieing on top of them. And if they are too far away to use a tazer, then for pete's sake use a rifle.

How about you sit on top a terrorist who you belive is cabable of detonating a bomb that's on his person, that will kill you, your partners, and civilliams.

And then honestly tell me you would use a taser.

I'm no expert on nothing, but that frankly seems like a horrible idea. I honestly agree with the execution, if he was in any way still poetnially cabable of detonating a bomb.

Chris

 

[iapetus]

UK THRers:

Why does the UK media refer to hollowpoints as "Dum Dum"? Dumdum arsenal bullets were soft points, no?

Is this misnomer become part of the media babble? Please help us confused Yanks.

Right then, carry on, Cheers,

El Tejon

I think they're just too shocked to discover that OMG! THE POLICE ARE USING WEAPONS THAT ARE SO EEEVIL YOU CAN'T EVEN USE THEM IN WAR!!! to actually research the subject.

Its not as if the UK media is particularly knowledgeable about firearms. (Although judging by the stories that get posted here, the US media isn't much better).

 

[svtruth]

Dead Man Switch

If I were a suicide bomber bomb designer ("And what do you do?") I would give the guy two switches, one that needs to be squeezed, and another that needs to be kept squeezed to not go off. Then no matter what peri-mortal reflexes occurred, KaBoom!

 

[Crosshair]

If I were a suicide bomber bomb designer ("And what do you do?") I would give the guy two switches, one that needs to be squeezed, and another that needs to be kept squeezed to not go off. Then no matter what peri-mortal reflexes occurred, KaBoom!

The bad guy in "Speed" used a deadman trigger for several of his bombs. Makes things tricky when the baddie has a deadman switch since you can't just shoot them.

 

[britinaz]

Not this crap again. The fuselage of a jet liner is so thin that it doesn't particularly matter what goes through it, it's gonna punch a hole. Fortunately that doesn't matter because the size of the hole compared to the volume of the plane is absolutely tiny. You'll start leaking air, but it won't cause some kind of catastrophic depressurization.

That's BS, I've seen what happens on the James Bond movies.

 

[azureflier]

Isnt it a bigger deal that they tackled an innocent man and then shot him in the head when he was completely subdued? You still die from a FMJ in the brain.

This seems like a typical cloud of hot air spewed by someone who knows nothing about firearms or terminal ballistics.

That became evident when the writer said that junk about how hollow point bullets are designed to "not burst the fuselage" of an aircraft.

-flier

 

[Cosmoline]

This seems like a typical cloud of hot air spewed by someone who knows nothing about firearms or terminal ballistics.

Which includes 99.9999999% of the British public I'm afraid.

 

[DRZinn]

Jezz, it's not bad enough that they shot an unarmed man, who (it turns out) was not acting suspiciously, was not wearing a bulky coat, did not run from the police, and did not jump the turnstile, but now those idiots have to undermine the case by complaining about the type of bullets, which most (all?) of the police and counter-terrorist forces in the US (the world?) carry???

For a one-shot stop, there's nothing better.

(Make that, "there's no better round." I know placement is important, so spare me.)

 

[Cosmoline]

I am 100 percent positive that it is legal to use expanding bullets on terrorists. We could not use them on Iraqi Republican Guard (legally), but we can use them on terrorists and "freedom fighters" who aren't technically working for the government, who aren't technically an enemy country's soldiers.

The Navy SEALS have been using hollowpoints for some time now, from what I've heard.

That article is so pointless and wrong in so many ways it makes me sick. Its idiotic on multiple levels.

You are 100% correct. Hague has NO APPLICATION to security actions against terrorists, whether in the US or Iraq. No application whatsoever. It's not considered warfare and the other side is not considered soldiers. Even if it was legal warfare, the other side has never adopted ANY rules of war. They chop the heads off our soldiers on video. Therefore per international law we could bake them in a nuclear furnace if we wanted and violate no rules of war whatsoever.

I don't know about the SEALS--rumors about what the do and do not have or use are rife on the internet. However I have found an official DOD legal memo approving the use of HP matchking ammo for snipers across the board as legal under all international rules of war. I'm also quite sure that for self defense and security operations US soldiers are permitted to use HP's, SP's, lampshades, sticky bombs or whatever else they can get their hands on.

 

[azureflier]

With respect to the "expand and splinter" thing, combined with the comment about air marshals and such, I think they're just confusing/combining Frangible and Hollowpoint ammunition.

~GnSx

Because, you know, they're just the media -- just an information source that people are supposed to be able to rely on. What does it matter if they do or don't get FACTS straight?! :banghead:


-flier