British Police shoot Terrorism suspect, again.

[real_name]

A 23-year-old man has been shot by police during a house raid involving 250 officers carried out early on Friday under the Terrorism Act.

The man, who was later arrested, was taken to hospital after the search in Forest Gate, east London. His injuries are not life-threatening.

A 20-year-old man is also being held at a central London police station.

A single shot was fired, according to the Independent Police Complaints Commission, which will investigate.

The operation was not linked to the London bombings of July 2005, police have said

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5040022.stm

This might turn out to be another wrongful shooting, but in my book the message that the British Police is giving out to the potential terrorists is invaluable.
If you are suspected of terrorism on British soil and do not comply during arrest you will get shot.
Priceless.
And quite a shock to those that thought Britain was a safe haven for such people.

 

[MechAg94]

It surprises me that only one shot was fired if he was really resisting. That almost sounds like an AD or ND. I would have to assume the police did okay until I can see a better description of the incident.

 

[xd45gaper]

i thought they had a ban on all guns in Britian?

 

[real_name]

i thought they had a ban on all guns in Britian?

I assume that was a joke?

Have you seen the British Forces fighting alongside the US Forces in Iraq?
Have you heard about the Police shooting of Mendez last year?
Have you seen images like these?

 

[Manedwolf]

This might turn out to be another wrongful shooting, but in my book the message that the British Police is giving out to the potential terrorists is invaluable.

What, that they miss actual terrorists until trains blow up, but manage to execute innocent Brazilian electricians in the subway?

 

[engineer151515]

A 250 officer house raid?
It's a wonder they didn't shoot each other.

 

[real_name]

What, that they miss actual terrorists until trains blow up, but manage to execute innocent Brazilian electricians in the subway?

Well, that's one way of looking at it, and from our perspective it seems that that was the case.
But the terrorists can't be thinking "I'll be fine, they might shoot the wrong guy." They are more likely thinking, "Damn, these cops are crazy, they shoot whoever they want, lets go and do our plan in Holland instead."

It is bad that they shoot the wrong guy. But it is still sending out the message that they are an armed response, and that is what is priceless.

Incidently, most societies miss the terrorists first time around.
USA.
Spain.
Indonesia.
Kenya.
Egypt.
etc.

 

[xd45gaper]

ok let me re word that arent all guns banned for private citizens in britian?
and if so why are the cops so well armed?

 

[Car Knocker]

arent all guns banned for private citizens in britian?

No, not quite.

 

[tellner]

real_name, that may be the stupidest thing I have heard on THR.

It is not alright to kill innocent people to "send a message" to bad guys. That is what we call "murder" in the civilized world and parts of West Texas. If you want to send a message, go down to the Post Office and buy a stamp.

If you kill law abiding people, or even ones who aren't law abiding if they aren't actually hurting anyone, you won't scare the terrorists. They will rightly think that you are stupid and brutish, which is something they are probably already comfortable with. What you will do is create a trememdous reservoir of ill-will with the citizens which may eventually lead to insurrections and revolutions or at least forcing cops to patrol the streets in groups of five or more.

 

[Master Blaster]

Remind me again why it is that if there is virtaully no crime and criminals are unarmed in the UK as compared to the USA where we have shootouts all the time....

Why is it the British police commonly carry machinguns with 30 round magazines on patrol, and at the airport?????

I dont see US police armed this way when I stroll sown the street in NYC, yet in London its not uncommon to see the Firearm police armed with machine guns, on crowded streets.

 

[gc70]

It is not alright to kill innocent people to "send a message" to bad guys.

Absolutely right, tellner. The Brits shot the wrong guy and they should all be disarmed for that mistake.

I dont see US police armed this way when I stroll sown the street in NYC

I have, on several visits to New York, frequently in the neighborhood of the UN and most recently in front of the JPMorgan-Chase building on Park in midtown.

 

[tellner]

gc70, that's not even "strawman".

I didn't say that accidental shootings don't happen, although the incredible repeated incompetence of the police in that particular incident should cost all of them their badges.

I did say that real_name's statement that it's alright to kill innocents to "send a message" shows a disgusting disregard for human life. If he even comes close to believing it I hope to G-d that some legal impediment exists to his owning repeating firearms and driving a motor vehicle.

 

[Manedwolf]

It is not alright to kill innocent people to "send a message" to bad guys. That is what we call "murder" in the civilized world and parts of West Texas. If you want to send a message, go down to the Post Office and buy a stamp.

If you kill law abiding people, or even ones who aren't law abiding if they aren't actually hurting anyone, you won't scare the terrorists. They will rightly think that you are stupid and brutish, which is something they are probably already comfortable with. What you will do is create a trememdous reservoir of ill-will with the citizens which may eventually lead to insurrections and revolutions or at least forcing cops to patrol the streets in groups of five or more.

+1

And in response to:

Well, that's one way of looking at it, and from our perspective it seems that that was the case.
But the terrorists can't be thinking "I'll be fine, they might shoot the wrong guy." They are more likely thinking, "Damn, these cops are crazy, they shoot whoever they want, lets go and do our plan in Holland instead."

It is bad that they shoot the wrong guy. But it is still sending out the message that they are an armed response, and that is what is priceless.

If a lot of the terrorists are from places where the walls are pocked with bullet holes and the local "police" kill people of opposing ethnic/religious factions, do you think this would dissuade them at all?

And do you think "Oh no, I might get SHOT by a crazy cop who'll shoot anyone!" is going to dissuade someone who intends to blow themselves up?

Aside from the fact that yes, I call that "murder", too. If it happened to a member of your family, would you be okay with it because it "sent a message", or would you want someone's head?

 

[MrTuffPaws]

Wow, such a standing ovation for JBT tactics. You Sir, are a true hero and American!!!!

 

[gc70]

I did say that real_name's statement that it's alright to kill innocents to "send a message" shows a disgusting disregard for human life.

tellner, I was derisive of your comment because real_name did NOT say what you accuse him of.

It is bad that they shoot the wrong guy.

That is an unambiguous statement - and it does not condone killing an innocent person.

But it is still sending out the message that they are an armed response, and that is what is priceless.

That is a factual observation. A shooting, even an unfortunate and unjustified one, does prove the Brits will mount an armed response to terrorists.

 

[real_name]

Remind me again why it is that if there is virtaully no crime and criminals are unarmed in the UK as compared to the USA where we have shootouts all the time....

Wrong on virtually no crime.
Wrong on unarmed criminals.
And speculative on the USA having shootouts all the time.

Tellner, I have both a Handgun Carry Permit and a DL.
And only gc70 can actually understand what I actually posted.

It's called collateral damage, something you have probably heard of on the news here in the US in relation to Iraq.
It happens.
Sometimes there is a fuss, sometimes no-one cares.
If the IDF shoots a few Palestinian farmers the western world generally shrugs.
If the US Marines kills an Iraqi militant who turns out to be a regular guy, the western world generally shrugs.
If the British Police get all excited and shoot the wrong guy, or shoot someone who was unarmed and raising his hands to surrender, then the world gets it's banties punched and some people who have never been anywhere near the place call for stern punishments, then belch another beerfart as they look for the next thing to be outraged about those Europeans.

 

[Iain]

Master Blaster - it is uncommon to see armed police in the UK, at least in my part of the UK. First time I ever saw armed British police was at an airport. Where the police are armed it is usually around areas that have historically been, and still are, prime terrorist targets - House of Commons, airports etc.

 

[tellner]

No, real_name, it's not even vaguely the same. And your examples are mostly wrong.

You said it. Killing innocents is excusable if it "sends a message" to the terrorists. Regrettable, but excusable.

When the Israelis kill Palestinian terrorists - anyone attacking civilians while not wearing his country's uniform is a terrorist - the world screams at them. Many countries are pulling investment out of Israel. The UK may soon sever intellectual ties; Israeli scholars would not be allowed to visit British universities and research institutions. I happen to think both of those policies are bigoted and stupid, but they are reality.

When Marines kill innocents it is "collateral damage". In a war zone. With the closest thing to a declared war in my lifetime. Even then, when they torture prisoners of war to death (who were wearing their country's uniform at time of capture, by the bye) they should be hanged by the neck until dead, dead dead. If the allegations about Haditha are true and people wearing the uniform of the United States military actually murdered a score of innocents including little children for no reason other than they were having a bad day, why they should be hanged by their scrotums over a slow fire until dead, dead, dead and buried on unhallowed ground with no memorial. If nothing else, they have probably created a thousand new jihadis who will kill other American soldiers.

In the civilian world killing people should only be done when there is no other choice. If you do it "to send a message" or excuse a bad shoot on the grounds that it will scare the terrorists you are a murderer. I don't care now much metal and braid you have. I don't care who you are. You are a murderer and should not be allowed on the street much less firearms.

The fact that you stand up for disgraces like this taints you deeply. You don't even have the excuse that you were under pressure and felt there was an immediate threat to you. You sit back in splendid safety and say "Good for you. Have a beer. The civilians? Sad, but that's life." The fact that someone with your evident disregard for human life and civilized laws has a concealed carry permit is terrifying. What will I do when you decide that I'm a terrorist and shoot me or mine to "send a message".

 

[real_name]

"Good for you. Have a beer. The civilians? Sad, but that's life."

Except I didn't say that.
And I don't drink.

You lose.

And stop being a drama queen.
You are terrified that I have a Carry Permit? Wow, what a life you must lead.

I didn't say they should do it to send a message, but that in doing it they are sending a message, a fine difference to someone reading my words in a blind panic of terrified self-retardation. Such as your self.

Now sit back a minute and ponder if you want to continue making a fool of yourself in public.

Terrified, wow...

 

[tellner]

Better a drama queen than an honest to goodness supporter of tyranny like yourself.

 

[real_name]

Tyranny?

So the British Police have shot and killed one man by mistake, and possibly wounded another by mistake. And for this some anonymous couch commando sees fit to pass judgement that they and anybody who in passing says their actions might be a message is tyrannical.

Saddam Hussain was a tyrant.

The Saudis are tyrants.

The British Police are actually trying to do something about terrorism on their soil, I guess you are on the terrorists side?

Tellner, take a break. The internet is no place for someone so easily terrified, so blatantly wrong and with such high blood pressure.
Take a Xanax and watch HGTV, have a sleep, whatever makes you calm down.

Edit: I have just discovered that Las Vegas makes you terrified too.

We were just in Las Vegas on family business. Fifteen years ago it was appalling. Now it's plain terrifying.

I guess when you said you find me terrifying you might have meant 'dull' instead. That is, if the LV analogy is to be used.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

Customs Agent: "Anything to declare, sir?"
Avi: "Yeah. Don't go to England."

 

[det.pat]

some years ago an officer from SO16, the metropolitan police service diplomatic security unit was going to get some food on his lunch break, and intervened in an armed robbery. he shot and killed the actor, saving lives, and then was excoriated for using his weapon. the news vultures and so called public autcry demanded that he be fired, charged with murder, and that the SO16 guys be disarmed, or at least not allowed to carry arms when leaving post for any reason. whatever happens to them the damn saxons get what they deserve.
pat

 

[real_name]

Not many Saxons left in old Albion.
They got invaded long, long ago.

Even the Royal family are Germans and Greeks.