Brits fighting ISIS undergoing training in the Czech Republic

Status
Not open for further replies.
Snejdarek

Snejdarek

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
735
Location
Czech Republic, EU
It is a well known fact that British Olympic team is training abroad due to the draconian UK's gun control. Last week, however, the papers reported that Brits that are fighting ISIS are getting trained abroad too - they are undergoing private lessons in the Czech Republic.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/22/uk-mercenaries-fighting-islamic-state-terrorist-syria
http://www.armyweb.cz/clanek/vycvik-britskych-bezpecnostnich-operatoru-v-cechach (in Czech, use google translate)

Anyways, I just underwent my first similar course dealing with pistol last month (actually only 1st session of 3), and I decided to go for one course (session) every half-a-year, finishing the 2 sessions on pistol next year and then having to decide between shotgun and semi-auto rifle. I am really glad I live in a country where I can have such a dilemma. I may not have any plans on combating ISIS, but I like to hope for the best and train for the worst, not least because it is such a great fun.

I think that this shows nicely the difference between gun laws in Europe. You have countries like UK, where you can't get your hands on guns (especially pistols and semi-auto sport rifles). Then you have countries like Germany, where as far as I understand you can get the guns, but it is illegal to train "combat" and "self-defense" scenarios.

I know that the gun laws vary between US states as regards possession, mag restrictions, carrying, etc., and I wonder whether it extends also to issues like firearm training? Are there any restrictions on that in states like NY or California, or are you in "green" once you legally get the guns to train with them as you like?
 
In the State of Idaho, a person can train about any way he wishes, from just plinking at a range or out in the desert, participating in IDPA matches including rifle/pistol/shotgun combo matches, IPSC, Practical Pistol Shooting matches, etc. No restrictions of which I am aware.

California shooters can shoot IDPA matches, three gun matches, IPSC, PPC, etc. There are certain restrictions on some guns and magazines, but still, California has not been completely tuned into a "neo-liberal progressive" Big Brother Big Nanny state.

At least, not quite yet, anyway.

L.W.
 
You'd have to understand a bit of history for that Florida law... Some years ago there were more than a few groups down here in paradise doing serious training (but many were not so skilled....) in and around the Everglades. Long before I landed in Florida, back in the early sixties some even had a bit of government help (all for the discomfort of the guy running Cuba....). All through the sixties and even into the early seventies there were offshoots and individuals who pretty much functioned as terrorists with bombs and stuff.... Believe they even did one assassination up in D.C. ( a Chilean diplomat if I remember correctly...). All of that stuff quieted down years ago - and all of it was long before the rise of the current middle east troubles....

As a result of that there might actually still be a statute on the books prohibiting paramilitary this and that. To my delight I never encountered any of them during my years in law enforcement (but I did volunteer to help a Cuban buddy during the Mariel exodus who had the chance to go Mariel and pick up family members.. fortunately, the window was closed before we could make the trip.....). Good thing that was since both of us were cops and our Chief had made it clear that any of us that got involved with that situation might not have jobs when we returned....

Paramilitary training in this part of Florida isn't exactly something spoken about in polite company these days -but there was a time....
 
Following up on Lemay's point, most of the more advanced training is a semi-private affair as you don't want novices (or persons of unknown skills) out there with you. However, years ago we used to rent a county owned gun range and hire officers from the training division to train us.
 
Some years ago there were more than a few groups down here in paradise doing serious training (but many were not so skilled....) in and around the Everglades. Long before I landed in Florida, back in the early sixties some even had a bit of government help (all for the discomfort of the guy running Cuba....).
Click to expand...

So, there were units akin to Freikorps trained in Florida? Were there more similar undertakings taking place on the US soil?
 
99% of our paramilitary types down here in Florida were ex patriate Cubans wanting to take back their country (and who could blame them?). What started out, though, as a pretty straitforward proposition over time turned into something else and groups like Alpha 66 began planting bombs etc.. By the end of the seventies and the overwhelming rise of the dope trade here locally things just plain got out of hand. Downtown Miami on New Years Eve in the early eighties sounded like Beirut. You could hear everything from heavy MGs on down (of course everyone was just celebrating but it gave a glimpse of just how heavily some folks were armed back then....).

I've heard more than one of my Cuban friends mention that almost all of the various groups were heavily infiltrated by agents from Cuba as well. Not familiar with Freikorps but the Cuban thing has been an on and off proposition since the late fifties..... These days it all seems to have simmered down but so much will depend on just how folks still in Cuba get treated by their government....
 
Texas is pretty much open to whatever you want to do. One of my favorite ranges has several dedicated "bays" that are about 100' or so squares with 15' high berms on three sides. A few of the bays have obstacles set up already. As long as you stay within their safety rules you're good to go. They also host matches and I've seen private groups training there at times.

Thinking more about it, one thing I haven't seen(or heard) there is any full-auto work. It may be allowed for those so licensed but I can't speak on that with any certainty.
 
I am not aware of any laws in Missouri that restrict the type of training. Restrictions might be imposed at a particular shooting range, whether public or private.

Missouri has a number of outdoor public shooting ranges sprinkled around, courtesy of the Missouri Department of Conservation. Some of these are supervised, others are open for anyone to come and go as you please. The supervised ranges do not allow rapid-fire shooting with any type of firearm. The unsupervised ones, which typically have two or three shooting lanes, firing into 50 and 100 yard berms, are obviously more casual. If you were the only person on the range, you could do just about anything you wanted to, within the bounds of reasonable safety for nearby land owners, of course.
 
More then half of the states have state laws outlawing paramilitary type training:

http://archive.adl.org/mwd/faq5.html
The state laws fall into a number of categories. Some states have no laws regarding unauthorized military groups. Some, such as Connecticut, require the groups to register with the state and annually file a membership list. Others ban unauthorized military organizations regardless of the purpose of the organization. Some states only ban these organizations if the purpose of the group is meant to or likely to produce civil disorder. Many of these same states prohibit parading by unauthorized armed groups through towns or cities.

Here is a listing of the statutory sources for each state law.

States with Both Anti-Militia and Anti-Paramilitary Training Laws (7)

-Florida. FLA. STAT. ANN. ch. 870.06, 790.29.
-Georgia. GA. CODE ANN. ss 38-2-277, 16-11-150 to -152.
-Idaho. IDAHO CODE ss 46-802, 18-8101 to -8105.
-Illinois. ILL. REV. STAT. ch. 1805, para. 94-95.
-New York. N.Y. MIL. LAW s 240.
-North Carolina. N.C. GEN. STAT. ss 127A-151, 14-288.20.
-Rhode Island. R.I. GEN. LAWS ss 30-12-7, 11-55-1 to -3.

States with Anti-Militia Laws Only (17)

-Alabama. ALA. CODE s 31-2-125.
-Arizona. ARIZ. REV. STAT. ANN. s 26-123.
-Iowa. IOWA CODE s 29A.31.
-Kansas. KAN. STAT. ANN. s 48-203.
-Kentucky. KY. REV. STAT. ANN. s 38.440.
-Maine. ME. REV. STAT. ANN. tit. 37-B, s 342.2.
-Maryland. MD. CODE ANN. art. 65, s 35.
-Massachusetts. MASS. GEN. L. ch. 33, s 129-132.
-Minnesota. MINN. STAT. s 624.61.
-Mississippi. MISS. CODE ANN. $ 33-1-31.
-Nevada. NEV. REV. STAT. s 203-080.
-New Hampshire. N.H. REV. STAT. ANN. s 111:15.
-North Dakota. N.D. CENT. CODE s 37-01-21.
-Texas. TEX. GOV'T CODE ANN. s 431.010.
-Washington. WASH. REV. CODE s 38.40.120.
-West Virginia. W. VA. CODE s 15-1F-7.
-Wyoming. WYO. STAT. s 19-1-106.

States with Anti-Paramilitary Training Laws Only (17)

-Arkansas. ARK. CODE s 5-71-301 to -303.
-California. CAL. PENAL CODE s 11460.
-Colorado. COLO. REV. STAT. s 18-9-120.
-Connecticut. CONN. GEN. STAT. s 53-206b.
-Louisiana. LA. REV. STAT. ANN. s 117.1.
-Michigan. MICH. COMP. LAWS s 750.528a.
-Missouri. MO. REV. STAT. s 574.070.
-Montana. MONT. CODE ANN. s 45-8-109.
-Nebraska. NEB. REV. STAT. s 28-1480 to -1482.
-New Jersey. N.J. REV. STAT. s 2C:39-14.
-New Mexico. N.M. STAT. ANN. s 30-20A-1 to -4.
-Oklahoma. OKLA. STAT. ANN. tit. 21, s 1321.10.
-Oregon. OR. REV. STAT. s 166.660.
-Pennsylvania. 18 PA. CONS. STAT. s 5515.
-South Carolina. S.C. CODE ANN. s 16-8-10 to -30.
-Tennessee. TENN. CODE ANN. s 39-17-314.
-Virginia. VA. CODE ANN. s 18.2-433.1 to -433.3.
Click to expand...

Then there are the provisions of the Patriot Act. There have been prosecutions for paramilitary training under the Patriot Act:

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...omegrown-threat-and-the-long-war-on-terrorism
Virginia Jihad Network—June 2003. Eleven men were arrested in Alexandria, Virginia, for weapons counts and for violating the Neutrality Acts, which prohibit U.S. citizens and residents from attacking countries with which the United States is at peace. Four of the 11 men pled guilty. Upon further investigation, the remaining seven were indicted on additional charges of conspiring to support terrorist organizations. They were found to have connections with al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, a terrorist organization that targets the Indian government. The authorities stated that the Virginia men had used paintball games to train and prepare for battle. The group had also acquired surveillance and night vision equipment and wireless video cameras.[27] Two more men were later indicted in the plot: Ali al-Timimi, the group’s spiritual leader, and Ali Asad Chandia.

Ali al-Timimi was found guilty of soliciting individuals to assault the United States and was sentenced to life in prison. Ali Asad Chandia received 15 years for supporting Lashkar-e-Tayyiba.[28] Randall Todd Royer, Ibrahim al-Hamdi, Yong Ki Kwon, Khwaja Mahmood Hasan, Muhammed Aatique, and Donald T. Surratt pled guilty and were sentenced to prison terms ranging from three years and 10 months to 20 years. Masoud Khan, Seifullah Chapman, and Hammad Abdur-Raheem were found guilty and later sentenced to prison terms ranging from 52 months to life.[29] Both Caliph Basha Ibn Abdur-Raheem and Sabri Benkhala were acquitted at trial.[30]
Click to expand...

I am not aware of any prosecutions for conducting military training that weren't tied to radical Islamic terrorists, but the law is on the books and just because it hasn't been used to shut down the firearms training we do now, it easily could be. That discussion is delving into legal matters and off topic here in ST&T.

Lets just say that you need to be extremely careful that your training is gear toward civilian self defense and really vet who you train with carefully.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top