Brother is going fishing in Alaska- What should I loan him?

[Prosser]

KodiakBeer:

I think Phil Shoemaker has carried a .458 Win for near 30 years up there.
Jack Huntington built a Ruger 1, stainless, 18" barrel, in .510 Wells, also known as .510
ASquare. It's the .460 Weatherby blown out to take .510 bullets. 630 grain soft point, at 2400 fps, IIRC. 150 Ft-lbs of recoil. Idea is to blow about a 2-4" hole from one end to the other, and, if that doesn't work, your knocked out, so you don't notice the bear eating you. Gun only weighed 6.5 pounds, or so.

I do know that the .458 Win mag was the original choice for the park service, but was later replaced by shotguns. I also helped develop the BRI 500-600 grain sabots, about 1500-1800 fps, that were popular with shotgun bear defense people.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but, I know a whole bunch of handgun hunters that SWEAR that when shooting animals bear sized, or bigger, that the .500JRH, .475 Linebaugh, .500 Linebaugh, my .500 Maximum all hit with and effect game about the same, or better then a .375 H&H rifle, and, they have the trophies to prove it.
That said, a bolt stainless .458 win mag or larger would be my choice, with a short barrel.

I don't want to reinvent the wheel, just use the same gun one of the best bear guides in that state has used for years.

 

[akadave]

KodiakBeer:

I think Phil Shoemaker has carried a .458 Win for near 30 years up there.
Jack Huntington built a Ruger 1, stainless, 18" barrel, in .510 Wells, also known as .510
ASquare. It's the .460 Weatherby blown out to take .510 bullets. 630 grain soft point, at 2400 fps, IIRC. 150 Ft-lbs of recoil. Idea is to blow about a 2-4" hole from one end to the other, and, if that doesn't work, your knocked out, so you don't notice the bear eating you. Gun only weighed 6.5 pounds, or so.

I do know that the .458 Win mag was the original choice for the park service, but was later replaced by shotguns. I also helped develop the BRI 500-600 grain sabots, about 1500-1800 fps, that were popular with shotgun bear defense people.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but, I know a whole bunch of handgun hunters that SWEAR that when shooting animals bear sized, or bigger, that the .500JRH, .475 Linebaugh, .500 Linebaugh, my .500 Maximum all hit with and effect game about the same, or better then a .375 H&H rifle, and, they have the trophies to prove it.
That said, a bolt stainless .458 win mag or larger would be my choice, with a short barrel.

I don't want to reinvent the wheel, just use the same gun one of the best bear guides in that state has used for years.

Dont take this the wrong way. But if you have not been into big bore handguns for years and havent studied the hunts, spoken to the PH's and authors that handgun hunt ( Ross Seyfried for one) or actually hunted with something like a .475 or .500 then you cant give but a WAG at how they affect an animal when shot. There are not stages of death. Dead is dead. A one shot kill with the animal going no more than 50 yards is no different thant a .375 H&H giving the same result. I know of hunter here in AK that told me of a 70's Kodiak hunt where it took several rounds of well placed .375 to get the job done. It happens. I also know of a hunter that has killed a bull Elephant with a single shot from a .475 and a .500 Linebaugh. Hippo, Cape buff...and the list goes on.

 

[KodiakBeer]

I know a whole bunch of handgun hunters that SWEAR that when shooting animals bear sized, or bigger, that the .500JRH, .475 Linebaugh, .500 Linebaugh, my .500 Maximum all hit with and effect game about the same, or better then a .375 H&H rifle, and, they have the trophies to prove it.

Any substantial handgun round can kill a bear and is an effective hunting tool. It's just more difficult to brain-shoot a bear in a sudden encounter. Most handgun hunters would be shooting blind at 15 yards anyway, since they tend to scope their pieces.

Here's a bear shooting: http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_story/9036031/article-Denali-Borough-mayor-shoots--kills-bear-at-landfill?instance=home_most_popular4

FAIRBANKS — Denali Borough Mayor Dave Talerico shot and killed a grizzly bear when it charged him this week at the Denali Borough Landfill.

“I just feel horrible,” Talerico said.

A taxidermist who examined the hide later discovered the bear had been shot earlier with a bullet from a .22, the mayor said. When he learned the bear had been wounded earlier, Talerico said he felt a little better about his decision to shoot in the interest of public safety — particularly his own at the time.

Marauding bears are an ongoing problem at the Denali Borough landfill, just south of the turnoff to Anderson on the Parks Highway. One evening, Talerico said, as many as seven grizzly bears were in the landfill at one time.

“They came in under the fence,” he said.

The borough spent thousands of dollars to bury chain link fence 2 feet deep into the ground around the perimeter. But this spring, a large grizzly pushed down one section of the fence, opening the pathway to others. The sharp coiled wire on top of the fence didn’t even faze it, Talerico said.

“When we were only dealing with one bear, we would just repair the chain link fence,” the mayor said. Usually, all he has to do is honk the horn on his vehicle to scare the bear away.

Talerico, who is running for a seat in the Alaska State House, routinely stops by the landfill some evenings. He estimated he has been there 15 times since mid-June.

“This is a public place with employees and the public,” he said. “We’d rather not have grizzly bears there.”

On July 28 of last week, Talerico found three grizzly bears at the landfill when he drove in.

He pushed his vehicle horn. One bear ran to the hole in the fence. One stayed on the pile of garbage.

“I opened the door of the SUV and I yelled, ‘Hey bear’,’’ Talerico said.

The first bear ran away through the fence. The second bear charged Talerico, who escaped to the inside of his vehicle with the bear just about 6 feet behind him. When the bear retreated, Talerico got out of the vehicle again, this time with a loaded weapon. He always carries an old 7mm Remington that he has owned since age 14.

He fired a shot and the second bear ran away. The remaining bear ran to the fence, reared up on his hind legs, and stopped.

Talerico fired into the air again.

The bear began walking down the fence line, then turned and charged directly at the mayor.

“He ran right at me, full bore, to the bottom of the slope I was on,” Talerico said. “I killed that bear. I shot and killed it. I got physically ill after that. I don’t have a problem with bear hunters, but this is not a place for a bear to die. But it’s also not the place for an employee or member of the public to get mauled by a grizzly bear. I hated to do it.”

He immediately called Alaska State Troopers, who came to the landfill and saw the damaged fence and the dead bear. The bear weighed about 400 pounds and stood more than 6 feet tall.

Talerico thought the bear was about 100 feet away when he shot. The Fish and Wildlife Trooper told Talerico it was closer to 25 feet, he said.

Alaska State Fish and Game Biologist Don Young said he and fellow workers came to the landfill Thursday night, intending to discourage other bears from hanging around, but none showed up.

The borough is now in the process of installing electrical fencing.

“The main thing is to get it secured so there is no future bear problem,” Young said.

Talerico seemed to still be a bit shaken by the incident, even two days later.

“It was a bad situation all the way around,” he said. “I’m not a bear hunter. I’ve never had any interest in bears. But we can’t have nuisance bears attacking people. It’s a big concern.”

When he learned that someone had wounded the bear earlier, he got particularly peeved.

“They put everyone in danger by wounding that bear,” he said. “They put my life at risk.”

Read more: Fairbanks Daily News-Miner - Denali Borough mayor shoots kills bear at landfill

 

[KodiakBeer]

And another bear shooting in Anchorage.

http://www.adn.com/2010/08/07/1400105/police-shoot-bear-trying-to-enter.html

Visit to home fatal for black bear sow, cubs


By ELIZABETH BLUEMINK
[email protected]

(08/07/10 22:02:56)

Anchorage police said they shot and killed a black bear and two cubs at a Stuckagain Heights home after the animals broke in last week and tried again twice on Saturday.

Police said they shot the sow on a back doorstep of the smaller of two houses on the property at about noon Saturday as it was clawing at the door. Officers then shot one cub while it was on the roof and a second while it was on a deck. A third escaped into the woods.

Homeowner Madeline Knowlton said her family members don't leave trash outside and they had lived about 20 years in the Farpoint Circle home without any bears breaking in. Then in 2006, one of her sons killed a 275-pound black bear that got inside while he and his wife were sleeping. He shot it while the bear was bounding up the stairs toward him.

Last year, a bear broke into her kitchen. This week, it was the sow and three cubs that was wreaking havoc.

 

[Prosser]

"Dont take this the wrong way. But if you have not been into big bore handguns for years and havent studied the hunts, spoken to the PH's and authors that handgun hunt ( Ross Seyfried for one) or actually hunted with something like a .475 or .500 then you cant give but a WAG at how they affect an animal when shot. There are not stages of death. Dead is dead. A one shot kill with the animal going no more than 50 yards is no different thant a .375 H&H giving the same result. I know of hunter here in AK that told me of a 70's Kodiak hunt where it took several rounds of well placed .375 to get the job done. It happens. I also know of a hunter that has killed a bull Elephant with a single shot from a .475 and a .500 Linebaugh. Hippo, Cape buff...and the list goes on. "
AKADave:
When I bought my first Linebaugh, about 1982?, in 45 Colt, a Seville:

#25:


Besides spending a LOT of time on the phone with John L. and his wife, I did get to hear the entire Cape Buffalo with a Seville story from Ross Seyfried,
on the phone. My dime, spent about an hour asking him questions, and getting the story.
Right after that, Ross designed a bolt action .577" rifle, IIRC, for a cheap,
one shot stopper for African game.
I think you are talking about Otto Candies, who's taken just about everything with the .475 and .500 Linebaughs. Guy named Tom I email once in awhile hunts with him just about every year in Africa.

It's funny, but the handgun hunters I do converse take it as a given that the Linebaughs are just as effective as most rifles, if not more so.

Kind of funny but the two biggest bears taken by hunters from this area same story. Taken at relatively long range, they both took ELEVEN ROUNDS of .375 H&H to kill.

I happen to have revolvers in .475, .500, .500 Maximum Linebaughs,and .500JRH at this point.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Nice guns!

Again, I don't think anyone could argue that a handgun isn't capable of taking a big bear. That's an entirely different thing than "stopping" an adrenalized bear at close quarters in a surprise encounter, which is the way bear attacks happen. As you state:

Kind of funny but the two biggest bears taken by hunters from this area same story. Taken at relatively long range, they both took ELEVEN ROUNDS of .375 H&H to kill.

Once they're adrenalized, you need a CNS hit to prevent them from contacting you. If I had a stubby little double rifle in .475 Linebaugh with express sites, I'd feel pretty comfortable. The same round in a revolver, not so much...

 

[Prosser]

Thanks!
The Seville is now in a holster in Texas. I sold it to buy a FA 83 in .475 Linebaugh, AND
a .500 Linebaugh Ruger Maximum. Deal was too good to pass up. I do miss the old girl...

Shoemaker posted one bear they hunted took a hit from a .458 Lott, rolled over, got up and started running. Took another .458 Win mag to stop him.

Jack Huntington has built a bunch of Alaska bear solution rifles and pistols.
I get to shoot some of them, and take pictures of others. Here are some ideas:

16" David Clay Stainless. 425 grain LFN at 1350 fps. Maybe 7 shots in the magazine? Don't remember. Didn't recoil much and was fun to shoot through the chronograph:



This Ruger SRH was converted to the same .500JRH, and, it runs 1250 fps with the same 425 grain bullet:

This is a Pedroselli 45-70 opened up to .450 Nitro Express 2. About the least expensive way to get a double in a stopping power caliber. Small, handy, and I don't think you can argue the .450 Nitro Express 2 is not a stopping round.
500 grain bullets, 2150 fps:


My .500 Maximum Ruger:
525 grain .510" bullet at 1350 fps:

Toms' 50-110 BFR:



My choice would be the .510's. This is me shooting the .510 Van Horn.
It's a shortened .460 Weatherby case, shooting a .510 Caliber 630 grain soft point, at 2150 fps. It will turn an elephant, should work on a brown bear on crack:

Lot of people have different ideas for bear guns.

 

[KodiakBeer]

This is a Pedroselli 45-70 opened up to .450 Nitro Express 2. About the least expensive way to get a double in a stopping power caliber. Small, handy, and I don't think you can argue the .450 Nitro Express 2 is not a stopping round.

That's the one I'd choose!

 

[akadave]

"Dont take this the wrong way. But if you have not been into big bore handguns for years and havent studied the hunts, spoken to the PH's and authors that handgun hunt ( Ross Seyfried for one) or actually hunted with something like a .475 or .500 then you cant give but a WAG at how they affect an animal when shot. There are not stages of death. Dead is dead. A one shot kill with the animal going no more than 50 yards is no different thant a .375 H&H giving the same result. I know of hunter here in AK that told me of a 70's Kodiak hunt where it took several rounds of well placed .375 to get the job done. It happens. I also know of a hunter that has killed a bull Elephant with a single shot from a .475 and a .500 Linebaugh. Hippo, Cape buff...and the list goes on. "
AKADave:
When I bought my first Linebaugh, about 1982?, in 45 Colt, a Seville:

#25:


Besides spending a LOT of time on the phone with John L. and his wife, I did get to hear the entire Cape Buffalo with a Seville story from Ross Seyfried,
on the phone. My dime, spent about an hour asking him questions, and getting the story.
Right after that, Ross designed a bolt action .577" rifle, IIRC, for a cheap,
one shot stopper for African game.
I think you are talking about Otto Candies, who's taken just about everything with the .475 and .500 Linebaughs. Guy named Tom I email once in awhile hunts with him just about every year in Africa.

It's funny, but the handgun hunters I do converse take it as a given that the Linebaughs are just as effective as most rifles, if not more so.

Kind of funny but the two biggest bears taken by hunters from this area same story. Taken at relatively long range, they both took ELEVEN ROUNDS of .375 H&H to kill.

I happen to have revolvers in .475, .500, .500 Maximum Linebaughs,and .500JRH at this point.

Great stuff! I have John L's 101st .500 LB that he made on a Ruger Bisely. I have a Jack Huntington .475 built on the same. I routinely carry a 4.75 inch FA Mdl 83 in .454 for bear as well since is small and I tend to shoot up all of my .500 and .475 loads. I had a 4 inch S&W .500 which is a ridiculous handgun and I sold it. It truly answers a question nobody ever asked. I love S&W though.

A good friend of mine used to do a lot of bullet design and testing and has worked with a lot of the big bore handgun hunters. I had the benefit of being able to acquire lots of his bullets...more than I will ever shoot.

For Kodiak, all of the guys that I have talked to and from articles suggest that they dont scope any of the big bores for African game. They have a PH handy with a big double or other big rifle though.


Prosser, I bet you know Dennis M?

 

[Prosser]

Yes I do. Dennis is still posting in the Reeder forum. He has a 45 Colt with an alloy grip frame he loves, built by Jack Huntington, IIRC.
Dennis mentioned something about designing bullets or something a long time ago. Don't remember... Veral Smith keeps coming to mind...

AkaDave:
Money has been a bit tight, but, I finally got a short barreled FA 83: in .500 JRH. I've got a Thomas Perfectionist it fits in perfectly.
For Alaska, I'd want stainless, but that's just me. I'm simply amazed this little gun shoots something so powerful, yet is so packable:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=537247
My gun is the FA.
I have another FA 83, a 454 converted to .475 Linebaugh by JRH. Problem with that gun is it's a 7.5" bull barrel, non-tapered, and, I can't get myself to have it cut down, since it shoots one hole at 50 yards, with the right loads. Plus, it and my Ruger will go in the same shoulder holster.

Remember calling John L and getting his wife. I ask for him, and she says,
"Wait, I'll shoot for him."
Phone is put down, hear steps, and a door, then "Bang!"
3 minutes later John L is on the phone. He sent me some of the 350's at 1550 fps Ross used on that cape buffalo. With the small original grips they were pretty much unshootable for me. They also knocked the gun out of time.

My Seville, before Jack Huntington fixed it, would go out of time with heavy loads. Ross's 6 shot did too.

So, that was an off the books part of the story about the cape buffalo. Not
only did he get off 5 shots in 2 seconds, shooting 350 grain bullets at 1550 fps, for around 50 ft lbs of recoil, but, after every shot, he had to turn the cylinder into time to take the next shot.
That, to me, is one of the most incredible shooting feats EVER.

 

[Elmer]

Edit....

 

[akadave]

Yes I do. Dennis is still posting in the Reeder forum. He has a 45 Colt with an alloy grip frame he loves, built by Jack Huntington, IIRC.
Dennis mentioned something about designing bullets or something a long time ago. Don't remember... Veral Smith keeps coming to mind...

AkaDave:
Money has been a bit tight, but, I finally got a short barreled FA 83: in .500 JRH. I've got a Thomas Perfectionist it fits in perfectly.
For Alaska, I'd want stainless, but that's just me. I'm simply amazed this little gun shoots something so powerful, yet is so packable:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=537247
My gun is the FA.
I have another FA 83, a 454 converted to .475 Linebaugh by JRH. Problem with that gun is it's a 7.5" bull barrel, non-tapered, and, I can't get myself to have it cut down, since it shoots one hole at 50 yards, with the right loads. Plus, it and my Ruger will go in the same shoulder holster.

Remember calling John L and getting his wife. I ask for him, and she says,
"Wait, I'll shoot for him."
Phone is put down, hear steps, and a door, then "Bang!"
3 minutes later John L is on the phone. He sent me some of the 350's at 1550 fps Ross used on that cape buffalo. With the small original grips they were pretty much unshootable for me. They also knocked the gun out of time.

My Seville, before Jack Huntington fixed it, would go out of time with heavy loads. Ross's 6 shot did too.

So, that was an off the books part of the story about the cape buffalo. Not
only did he get off 5 shots in 2 seconds, shooting 350 grain bullets at 1550 fps, for around 50 ft lbs of recoil, but, after every shot, he had to turn the cylinder into time to take the next shot.
That, to me, is one of the most incredible shooting feats EVER.

Awesome story! I have a whole bunch of 300 gr LFN GC's that are from an FA mould. I tried some of John L's 45LC loads in my 625 (He likes to carry ans S&W 45lc or he used to) I had some go out of time with about 19 gr of 2400. Stout for the Smith. The FA bullets actually threw to about 317gr with GC's.

I love my .500 LB load. 470 gr WLFN GC that Dennis had made up. I get mid 1200's with it (24 gr of 2400) and the gun loves it! 2 inch at 50 yard when I do my part and mild enough to shoot all day.

I had to use 2400 because it wasnt getting good obturation with other powders and was leading. Also had to have the bullets sized .513 . Its my pet load now.

Still fooling with some .475 loads. I have a bunch of 460 gr. LFNs from Dennis. The Jack Huntington gun compares well to Johns, belted barrel and faux Ivory grips...lol!

 

[Prosser]

What have you shot with those heavy bullets? Are the bears wearing kevlar vests again?

 

[akadave]

What have you shot with those heavy bullets? Are the bears wearing kevlar vests again?

I havent had opportunity to shoot anything more threatening than an old washing machine lol!

Oddly enough nobody wants to go revolver hunting with me!

Dave

 

[Deaf Smith]

Aw comeon guys, if you are really gonna pack a hand cannon for bear, just get a M79 grenade laucher cut down to pistol size. The SF and LRRPs used it in Vietnam and swore by it (and at it sometimes.)

Nothing stops a bear like 40mm HE.

Deaf

 

[rozziboy18]

i would carry a dillion in 7.62 with about 10,000 rounds! but i digress, 12 ga is the way to go here

 

[Prosser]

50 oz gun on your belt. Not that hard to carry, nor that big to bother you.
425 grains at 1350 fps. Never leave home without it...

 

[lloveless]

Hi,
I was in Kotzebue, Ak for 13 weeks earler this year. At the NPS I picked up a pamphlet "Living in Harmony with Bears". Page 13 states "If a bear attacks-if and only if a bear makes physical contact, fall to the ground on your stomach and protect your face and neck. If the bear rolls you over, try to get back into this position. The bear is almost certainly making a defensive attack and will stop when it feels it has eliminated any threat. When the bear stops, keep as still and quiet as possible. Stay that way until you believe the bear has left the area. Movement and sound can initiate new attacks. If the attack persists and the bear continues to bite long after you assume a defensive posture, it is likely making a predatory attack. Fight back vigorously..If you can positively identify the bear as a black bear do not drop to the ground. Fight back as if your life depends on it---at this point it may. If a bear of either species attacks you in your tent.....fight back." I think if your being fed on it is way too late to fight back!
ll

 

[Deaf Smith]

"If a bear attacks-if and only if a bear makes physical contact, fall to the ground on your stomach and protect your face and neck. If the bear rolls you over, try to get back into this position."

Yea, and all the while they are chewing on you!

"The bear is almost certainly making a defensive attack and will stop when it feels it has eliminated any threat."

And what does this 'elimnated' mean Kemosabe?

"When the bear stops, keep as still and quiet as possible. Stay that way until you believe the bear has left the area. Movement and sound can initiate new attacks."

Yes be still with that crushed leg! Be quite with that mangled arm!

"If the attack persists and the bear continues to bite long after you assume a defensive posture, it is likely making a predatory attack. Fight back vigorously.."

NOW YOU TELL ME! Long after? Like in after your face is gone, arms gone, guts hanging out? THEN FIGHT?

"If you can positively identify the bear as a black bear do not drop to the ground. Fight back as if your life depends on it---at this point it may. If a bear of either species attacks you in your tent.....fight back."

But don't use a gun, right?

Nice advice, but I'd prefer to keep my option simple. That is, if attacked shoot back!

Deaf

 

[akadave]

Fish and Feathers in Alaska are fond of guilting people into not using any kind of lethal force on the poor defenseless bears.

If a bear is coming towards you and no amount of yelling or noise will dissuade them then shoot them until they stop quivering.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Fish and Feathers in Alaska are fond of guilting people into not using any kind of lethal force on the poor defenseless bears.

Does the "AK"A mean you live in Alaska? If so, get to know some F&G people and you'll find them quite reasonable. The deal is, they just don't want every tourist with a 9mm peppering the bears. But, I don't know of a single case (ever) where they've charged anyone with a crime for shooting a bear unless it was just a ridiculous situation - clear poaching or the like.

They're pretty reasonable people. I've "been there and done that" with them, and they were on my side even though the Anchorage Daily Worker" (ADN) was floating letters about "hicks" out in Kodiak shooting bears for doing what bears do - eating people... Anyway, the F&G backed us 100%. They're good folks, in my opinion.

 

[kelo4u2]

Fishing

If I was going to Alaska to go fishing ,I am going to fish and let the guide worry about the bears. The only thing I would need a gun for would be to shoot the guide if my fishing trip got ruined.

 

[Readyrod]

I just want to run something by you guys. If a cns hit is all that will stop a charging bear then wouldn't a semi auto be better. And maybe you don't need a caliber for breaking shoulder bones just something that would penetrate the skull. Would an sks or something similar do the job in that case?

 

[Prosser]

AKADave:

Just got a bunch of .500 Linebaugh, 199 rounds, to be exact. 50 of it is 435 grain LFN's
with 28 grains of H110. The rest, 149 rounds, is 435 grain LFN's, with 28 grains of 4227.
Both are a hair below minimum loads, but, suggested and tested by John Taffin(4227), and Gary Reeder(H110). Not sure how fast the H110 goes, but, the 4227 should be around 1110 fps.

Kind of weird looking at that next to the .500JRH. 440 grain bullet, 950 fps.

Anyway, it's over 100 here right now, so I'm not going anywhere fast.

As for a semi auto: perhaps.

That said, there is something to be said for these big, heavy bullets, going 1100-1350 fps. The guys I know that hunt with these things swear they kill at least as well as a 375 H&H rifle, and, that the impact
on game when they hit is really amazing, and the reactions likewise. If you miss the head and spine with a big heavy bullet like this, you are going to cut near an inch hole, end to end, breaking everything on the way.

There is a real good chance you can break a shoulder, or leg bone, and turn, or slow down a big animal. You aren't going to find many auto rounds that will penetrate 50-60" of bear, or, for that matter, rifle rounds.

IIRC, the SKS rounds are effective because they are designed to tumble. That's going to limit penetration, and not work well on a bear.

There are some of those conversions for the AR 15's in .500" caliber, or .454" IIRC, that are about the same ballistics as the pistol rounds in question. Still, if you are going to carry a rifle, a double would be the way to go,
and, .450 Nitro Express 2 probably the starting point.

Friend was charged by a beefalo, think bison-huge bull steer, over 2000 pounds, and mean, goring the truck, and trying to jump in. My friend jumped out with the .450 Nitro Express double, hit it with the first barrel, 500 grains, 2150 fps. The beefalo went down, just like they say these things do when hit with such rifles. What they don't tell you is it got RIGHT back up, MAD. However, that gave my friend the chance to brain it with the other barrel.

Know another guy that spent a lot of time and money on the perfect bear gun. He's used a variety of 16-18" barreled, 6-8 pound rifles, with muzzle brakes, in calibers starting at .458 Lott, and going up to .600 Overkill( 900 grain
bullet, .622" caliber, at between 1800-2400 fps, depending on barrel length, and insanity level.) He really likes them, since they have flattened the bears he's shot with them, and yet they are light enough not to be put down, much.

The point here is a packable, maximum power handgun, that is on you at all times, and, is not a hunting gun.

I guess my point is that your original premise, that the only thing that is going to stop a bear is a CNS hit, is flawed when it comes to the big pistols, or rifles. You can turn, and get big animals attention by hitting them wit .500" caliber, or bigger, pistol bullets, that weigh over an ounce each, and penetrate as well, or better then most any rifle round.

 

[Deaf Smith]

How about the new Predator 500 Pump Rifle. Takes the 500 S&W cartridge.

http://www.predatortactical.com/Firearms/PT-500-Pump-Rifle/PT-500-p36.html

.500 S&W
16.5" Barrel
6+1 Capacity
Ashley Express Sights
7 Pounds

Expensive but sounds interesting.

Deaf