Brother is going fishing in Alaska- What should I loan him?

What should I loan to my brother?

  • .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk (5.5" Blued) loaded with 335 gr LFN +P Buffalo Bore or ???

    Votes: 99 44.2%
  • .41 Mag S&W 657 (6" Stainless) loaded with 210 gr JSP Remington or ???

    Votes: 45 20.1%
  • .44 Special S&W 624 (4" Stainless) loaded with hot LSWC/LFN from BB, DT or Grizzly

    Votes: 25 11.2%
  • .45 Colt S&W 625MG (4" Stainless- Night Sights) loaded with a BB or DT heavy standard pressure LSWC

    Votes: 36 16.1%
  • .357 Mag Ruger Police Service-Six (4" Blued) loaded with 180 gr Federal Cast Cores or BB/DT equiv

    Votes: 19 8.5%

  • Total voters
    224
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I think it would be just fine as long as you make the hit - the ranges we are talking about are right in your face. The snout and mouth are actually hollow areas with very little bone to stop a projectile of any kind. A lot of people think they should aim "between the eyes" or into the forehead which is why there is a myth about bear heads being bullet-proof. The brain is actually low in the head behind the nose and mouth. The top of the head is actually a bony sagittal crest where the neck and jaw muscles attach - there's no brain up there, so a hit just makes them mad.



It's the same issue no matter what you carry - unsnapping and drawing a handgun is no quicker than throwing down with a long gun. I carry a little double barrel coach gun sticking out of my pack with the stock over my right shoulder. I also carry pepper spray on a chest holster.
I dont know. Look at the picture of the guy flyfishing with the shotgun on his back. It will take a whole lot of time to get that into action compared to something like this.

http://www.davidjohnstonleather.com/Pages/Holsters.html

Ive been on a number of rivers in AK with guys in the water and shotguns laying on the bank. Bird in the hand beats a bird on the bank so to speak.
 
Bird in the hand beats a bird on the bank so to speak.

Only hits count. If you're good enough to hit a running bear in the nose with a handgun, then you're well armed. If you're just going to hit him in the torso, you're liable to be dead long before he bleeds out.
 
Only hits count. If you're good enough to hit a running bear in the nose with a handgun, then you're well armed. If you're just going to hit him in the torso, you're liable to be dead long before he bleeds out.
Nah...headshot isnt totally necessary.
 
Thanks for the discussion folks!

There has always been at least one shotgun on the trip, usually supplied by the guy who was flying the plane. Until just recently, my brother was living in Singapore, so bringing his own gun(s) was not an option. His personal firearms were stored stateside, not really available for the short AK visits.

The terrain they fish is pretty open, so the chances of surprising a bear are low. They definitely are NOT looking for an excuse to shoot a bear, and will "break contact" if necessary to avoid a confrontation. I will inquire about the carrying of pepper spray.
 
For that area, river fishing, I would only be worried about sows with cubs. The boars are interested in salmon and assuming the run is good they're going to be sated on salmon brains. I'd only get really worried if the runs are getting late. But generally the coastal brown bear are bigger and mellower than the interior griz.

Hopefully the silvers will be running good. Dress warm for September--that's our rainy season. Though this year July is *also* our rainy season.

So basically the classic DLP scenario is unexpectedly running into a sow guarding cubs. First rule is to be aware of your surroundings and keep eyes and ears open. If you see potential trouble, back way off. Esp. if the sow is acting agitated.

As far as firearm choices, the slug gun rules. It's inexpensive and light weight, so you can tote it fishing and if you drop it in the drink no biggy. My Mossberg 500 ended up with about a cup of river silt in the action after a summer fishing the big Su tributaries, but still functioned fine. Load with Brenneke style slugs and ideally have a sighted slugster barrel on the shotgun. Takes a minute to put on.

For access, you can put a quick release on your sling or use a backpack scabbard.

If the shotgun is out, then of your choices I'd go with the .45 Colt loaded as heavy as possible. Heavy bullets are more important than the +P factor.

Also, don't forget bear spray. If you have multiple people that can be a good option.
 
We only have the "smaller" bears (relatively speaking) down here, like the black bears running up and down the stairs behind the downtown buildings, but I lived in the Interior for the first 6 years in Alaska.

12 gauge loaded with slugs. Your choice of shotgun, but a good, solid reliable pump with nothing over a 20 inch barrel, for ease of handling.
 
We only have the "smaller" bears (relatively speaking) down here, like the black bears running up and down the stairs behind the downtown buildings, but I lived in the Interior for the first 6 years in Alaska.

12 gauge loaded with slugs. Your choice of shotgun, but a good, solid reliable pump with nothing over a 20 inch barrel, for ease of handling.
Does the Baranof's restaurant still have Holtsmeister's cheesecake? The last time I lived in Juneau... Fred Meyer's grand opening was the buzz in town. :D
 
Lordy, another bear discussion. I'll try to stay off the silly shotgun nonsense as well as the notion of hitting a charging bear in the nose. Hopefully anybody with any amount of common sense will realize how silly that is. I will also say that a heavy sixgun on the hip beats the hell out of a rifle 10ft away or a shotgun slung across your back. If you can't draw your sixgun quicker than you can unsling a shotgun, you need more practice. It is purely a weapon of convenience and the sportsman who is proficient with the heavy sixgun on his hip will be FAR better protected than one without. Regardless of any other factor.

In a sixgun, you need a big, heavy, toughly constructed bullet. Anything 1000-1200fps will do. Controllability it far more important than 100fps. A big cast bullet loping along at 1000fps will be FAR more effective than a lightweight at blistering speed. Your Blackhawk .45Colt would be an excellent choice but I sure as hell wouldn't wanna do enough shooting with 335's to be proficient with the standard XR3-RED grip frame. The Bisley gets the nod for this purpose.
 
I dont know. Look at the picture of the guy flyfishing with the shotgun on his back. It will take a whole lot of time to get that into action compared to something like this.

http://www.davidjohnstonleather.com/Pages/Holsters.html

Ive been on a number of rivers in AK with guys in the water and shotguns laying on the bank. Bird in the hand beats a bird on the bank so to speak.
A few questions on your guide holster...

Are they leather lined, or fleshy side (suede) left to ride against the gun?
Are they machine stitched, or saddle stitched?
What does one for a 7 1/2" SBH (with/without cartidge loops) run (R/H shooter)?
 
What should I loan him?

You say that he's experienced with a .45? Do you have one? Loan THAT to him.
When I lived in Juneau, I met quite a few people that carried .45s. Yes, I know that right around Juneau you're more likely to see blacks, but as soon as you're "out the road," you're in brown country, and as soon as you get off the mainland , you're in some of the best brown country in Alaska. You can (almost) throw a rock to Admiralty Island, ya know.
The only reason I did carry a .41(M58 4") was I HAD it, and DIDN'T a .45.
I now have a .45 and carry it in a pancake so that it's tight against my body so it won't hang up in the brush. It's ALMOST as much fun to get caught in Devil's Club as it is to be mauled!! lol. MOST of the reason he'll be carrying a handgun, anyway, is for peace of mind. The likelihood of anything actually happening is pretty remote.
The point I've been "beatin' around the bush" to get to is that earlier this year there was a confrontation in Denali....the .45 won. I don't know if it was justifiable, or what any of the circumstances were, but the .45 won!
If it were MY brother.....I'd probably give him a couple pink Pixies, lol
Have fun,
Gene
 
You say that he's experienced with a .45? Do you have one? Loan THAT to him.

I have custody of his .45 at the moment- a full-size 1980's Llama. Though it has been reliable, I have definitely have concerns about the integrity of the hammer/sear components.
 
What should I loan him?

Hmmm, good point. The metal was the big problem in those years. I didn't buy a Llama in that period because it concerned me. BUT.....the new parts should fit, Colt or someone else's. Right?
I carry a Fire-Storm now, and it has a Colt part or two, but I don't replace it 'til it needs it. The parts in MY F-S were put there because of design, not wear. How long would it take you to adjust the gun before he leaves. I'm sure he'd be happier, or more comfortable with his own gun.
Think about the Pixies, though. lkol
Gene
 
Your Ruger in 45 LC with the Buffalo Bore Item 3A 325 Jacketed flat nose at 1325 FPS. I just got back from that same kind of trip. Mostly Black bears on the southern coast although we did see a few Brown Bears. I like the ruger chest holster. but the hopped up Buffalo bore stuff is plenty of gun for anything.
 
I'll try to stay off the silly shotgun nonsense as well as the notion of hitting a charging bear in the nose. Hopefully anybody with any amount of common sense will realize how silly that is. I will also say that a heavy sixgun on the hip beats the hell out of a rifle 10ft away or a shotgun slung across your back.

Do you know what happens when you hit an adrenalized bear in the torso? Nothing much usually, though he may die later.

Do you know how a brown bear kills? His first instinct is to pop your head. If it's a smallish bear, you'll be scalped because lack of leverage will cause his teeth to slip, taking your scalp. That's the single most common injury among survivors of brown bear attacks. If it's a large bear, your head just pops and you of course die instantly. That's the single most common cause of death from brown bear injuries.
How long does it take a bear to knock you down and pop your head? A second perhaps.
How long does it take for an adrenalized brown bear to die from a torso hit? It varies, but the time might be measured in minutes rather than seconds - or he might not die at all.

There's nothing silly about shotguns or aiming for the nose. There's nothing silly about pepper spray. Handguns can kill a bear, but there are better tools.

How do I know all this? I've been scalped by a brown bear. One of his upper canines went into my right eye socket, the other through my lower cheek. His lower jaw clamped the back of my head, but when he bit his lower jaw slipped, ripping my scalp off from the rear and leaving it hanging over my face. He then bit out my right bicep, tore off (nearly) my left buttock, destroyed my left knee, my right hand and raked every place on my body not hidden under a steel framed Alice pack with his claws.
How long did it take him to do this? Less than a minute; possibly thirty seconds.
He was then shot through the torso with a .300 Mag, twice, before breaking off his attack. Two days later he attacked a party of hunters on a beach charging down a hill from 150 yards (or so), who managed to bail into a skiff and get offshore in time. A year later, what is believed to be the same bear killed and partially ate a hunter in the same locale. This man managed to get off at least one shot with a 30.06.

You're kidding yourself if you think handguns are good choices for brown bears, or even large grizzlies. They're incredibly tough and when they attack they are already charged with adrenaline - quite different than shooting a bear in a hunting situation.

A shot (even a miss) from any weapon, may turn a bear just from the noise alone. Pepper spray has excellent odds of stopping a bear. But the only sure stop is a hit in the center of the face. Period. If you're good enough to make that shot on a 40mph bear with a large handgun, then you're well armed. I don't know anybody that good - or, at least I don't know anyone who wouldn't have better odds with a shotgun. I don't know Jerry Miculek...
 
I'm going to ask you guys this:

How many of you have shot a deer and it ran off? How many of you have heard of enraged individuals taking many a gunshot and still kill?

Now that is the point of KodiakBear. Your weapon will be to STOP the bear, not kill it (though it should right there.) Stopping an enraged fast moving bear is a totally different thing than a shot and a calm bear 100 yards away.

Now get your favorite bear stopper (handgun, shotgun, or rifle) and get a soccer ball and have it rolled down a hill (in a safe fashion so no one is in the line of fire) from say 30 yards and try to put a round through the ball before it gets to you. To add realism, use a rough hillside that makes the ball bounce some. Try to put as many rounds as you can!

Then keep in mind a bear’s brain will be smaller than any soccer ball!

Do that and you will now understand why KodiakBear says what he says.

And KodiakBear, I’ve never shot a bear in my life but I can understand what you are driving at! Now I love handguns, got a passel of them, but even the most powerful of them are hard to shoot at such a fast moving target as an enraged bear! And while I’d still pack one if I went to Alaska, I’d have that shotgun with good slugs as first line of defense!

Deaf
 
You shouldn't loan him anything. Offer to take him to the range with your selection, including a 12 gauge shotgun and let him select which one he likes and shoots best.....

THEN, take him to the gunstore so he can buy one just like it....

If he doesn't want to spend HIS money on a gun, then he sure as hell won't be getting any of mine.

(I learned this one the hard way, but it's up to you)
 
12g pump with slugs. It's rare to find people who fish or work in grizzly/brown bear country w/o a shotgun. I can't remember a time when I didn't have the 870 with me in the plane.
 
Do you know what happens when you hit an adrenalized bear in the torso? Nothing much usually, though he may die later.

Do you know how a brown bear kills? His first instinct is to pop your head. If it's a smallish bear, you'll be scalped because lack of leverage will cause his teeth to slip, taking your scalp. That's the single most common injury among survivors of brown bear attacks. If it's a large bear, your head just pops and you of course die instantly. That's the single most common cause of death from brown bear injuries.
How long does it take a bear to knock you down and pop your head? A second perhaps.
How long does it take for an adrenalized brown bear to die from a torso hit? It varies, but the time might be measured in minutes rather than seconds - or he might not die at all.

There's nothing silly about shotguns or aiming for the nose. There's nothing silly about pepper spray. Handguns can kill a bear, but there are better tools.

How do I know all this? I've been scalped by a brown bear. One of his upper canines went into my right eye socket, the other through my lower cheek. His lower jaw clamped the back of my head, but when he bit his lower jaw slipped, ripping my scalp off from the rear and leaving it hanging over my face. He then bit out my right bicep, tore off (nearly) my left buttock, destroyed my left knee, my right hand and raked every place on my body not hidden under a steel framed Alice pack with his claws.
How long did it take him to do this? Less than a minute; possibly thirty seconds.
He was then shot through the torso with a .300 Mag, twice, before breaking off his attack. Two days later he attacked a party of hunters on a beach charging down a hill from 150 yards (or so), who managed to bail into a skiff and get offshore in time. A year later, what is believed to be the same bear killed and partially ate a hunter in the same locale. This man managed to get off at least one shot with a 30.06.

You're kidding yourself if you think handguns are good choices for brown bears, or even large grizzlies. They're incredibly tough and when they attack they are already charged with adrenaline - quite different than shooting a bear in a hunting situation.

A shot (even a miss) from any weapon, may turn a bear just from the noise alone. Pepper spray has excellent odds of stopping a bear. But the only sure stop is a hit in the center of the face. Period. If you're good enough to make that shot on a 40mph bear with a large handgun, then you're well armed. I don't know anybody that good - or, at least I don't know anyone who wouldn't have better odds with a shotgun. I don't know Jerry Miculek...
Eeeew! Pictures! Pictures!
 
And KodiakBear, I’ve never shot a bear in my life but I can understand what you are driving at! Now I love handguns, got a passel of them, but even the most powerful of them are hard to shoot at such a fast moving target as an enraged bear! And while I’d still pack one if I went to Alaska, I’d have that shotgun with good slugs as first line of defense!

It's KodiakBeer (because I'm a homebrewer), but yeah, I think you get the picture perfectly. Understand too, that almost all of such incidents happen in heavy brush or along loud creeks because that's where you're likely to surprise a bear. It isn't like you need to stalk around ninja-like clutching a 12 gauge at the ready everywhere you go. The good salmon streams are bordered with dense alder thickets and you'll be walking in on bear trails. You'll see the tracks, you'll see the peeled salmon carcasses and if you have a brain in your head you'll be in condition orange with your firearm at the ready when you go through those zones. People aren't normally attacked while fishing or in open areas (though bears will sometimes come along and puff up to take over the hole you're fishing). You can pretty much relax anywhere in Alaska (no snakes!) except in dense brush.

Bears are like sleepy old grouches with 4 or 5 shots of bourbon under their belt during the day. They gorge and then they sleep - sometimes they even snore. Some nimrod (like myself in one case) comes along, gets too close and wakes them up. They can react violently when surprised like that and their first instinct is too run - sometimes (mostly) they run away, but sometimes they charge the intruder.

These are the kind of attacks where people get killed. The other attacks such as a bear deciding he wants to explore your camp for food, or drive you out of a fishing spot are very different. They bluff, they puff up, they just generally try to intimidate you away from what they want. A handgun would be fine for that, but... it's smarter to just call their bluff with some pepper spray. If you kill the bear your fishing trip is over. You have to take the head and skin and turn it in to F&G (a smelly 200 pound package), file statements, etc. A huge pain in the azz.
 
Ratdog,

No. The cheesecake on the menu is not specifically named. Probably since the Gold Room has it's own "line" of food....

Walmart was the buzz a few years ago...
 
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