Browning BAR--Belgium, Can Someone Date This?

[Radjxf]

The son and I were cruising the pawn shops today, and I traded into an old Belgium-made Browning BAR in 30-06.

It has "light" colored wood, engraving of an antelope on the right, elk on the left, and minor scrollwork on the trigger guard, etc.

Lot's of honest wear, esp near the muzzle but this old gun just exudes quality.

The serial number is 4897X (last # replaced with the 'x') followed by a space and M8. The serial number is on the right side of the barrel, and there's a ? proof mark on the other side of the barrel with a "PV" in it.

Any info much appreciated. TIA.

 

[Maverick223]

Pics or it didn't happen...whadja' trade (Blender? )?

 

[Radjxf]

This gun's not pretty enough for pics. Maybe soon.

I traded a S&W M&P 45 that I just didn't care for, and had very little money in.

I think the M8 means 1968?

I've begun tearing it down for cleaning and inspection. This thing has NEVER been cleaned! Having a bear of a time trying to figure out how to get the gas cylinder apart so the rest of the action can be removed..........

 

[Maverick223]

Great trade...no matter what condition. Almost as good as trading a blender for it.

Is that the entire SN (with the obvious exception of the last digit)? I believe there should be a couple letters...if not I am clueless. I would speculate that it is a older model (perhaps '67 or very early '68).

Here is a copy of the owners manual that will give you details on how to disassemble your new BAR. Good luck, Mav.

 

[hometheaterman]

http://www.browning.com/customerservice/dategun/detail.asp?id=18

There is how to date it. I'm not sure sure what's up with the serial number you posted as it doesn't seem to match any of those unless I'm missing something.

Post some pictures. Even if it's not in the best shape it still sounds like a beautiful rifle. What are your plans for it? Are you going to refinish it or just leave it how it is and use it?

Is it a grade II or a grade III?

 

[Maverick223]

According to a friend and collector, it is a 1968. The SN pattern changed in late '68-early '69, the prior models were only marked with the last digit of the year made (the last digit of the SN). Now I want my pictures.

 

[Radjxf]

I'll post pics tomorrow when the sun comes up.

I have no idea how you identify the various grades. Since it has the scrollwork on it, I'd guess grade II?

Tore it down completely; it was obvious this had not been done in 41 years! Not a fun gun to tear down, but not as bad as I'd heard. The quality and fitting of each part on this gun is something you just don't see anymore.....

 

[hometheaterman]

Yeah scrollwork and engraving is at least a grade II. The grade one doesn't have any engraving on the receiver. I'm not sure what the difference between a grade II and grade II is.

BTW if you don't mind me asking what did you pay for this thing?

 

[Radjxf]

I'd rather not divulge what I paid, but given what I had in the pistol I traded, I didn't pay anywhere near what I see the Assembled in Portugal Brownings sell for on Gunbroker.

As an aside, note that 3/4 of all the BAR's on Gunbroker listed as "Belgium" guns are Portugal assembled rifles.

This one has a lot of honest wear on the outside, pretty much none on the inside. I bought it to do a little hunting with, not for any type of collector value.

Now I need to find out what ammo everyone likes to shoot through these things.

 

[hometheaterman]

So yours is assembled in Belgium also? Mine that was assembled in Portugal but made in Belgium was never really accurate but it liked Federal Fusions the best out of what I tried. I shot them in 150 grain. I tried, Federal Fusions, Federal Soft Points 150 grain, Winchester Power Points 150 grain, Winchester soft points 165 Grain. Winchester Silvertips 150 grain, Winchester Ballistic Tips in 150 grain, and Remington Core Lokts in 165 grain or are they 168? Whatever they were in that grain. The Federal Fusions I got about a 2" group at 100 yards. The Federal soft points I got about a 3" group at 100 yards. Also okay for hunting. I could have 2 shots touching then the next 10 would be further apart so sometimes. I never got much better than a 2" group at 100 yards.

I wanted to shoot the Winchester Ballistic Silvertips but when I tried them I was all over the target at 100 yards. I couldn't get it anywhere close.

Some guys seem to get BAR's that will shoot sub MOA but I've read quite a few reports like mine where they got 2-3" groups. The Winchester Soft Points did about like the Federal's. Accurate enough to hunt with but not impressive.

I did shoot from a vise a group at 50 yards with the Winchester Silvertips where it was 6 shots in one ragged hole. I couldn't figure out how I kept missing the target until I walked up to it and noticed I had one big hole where you could see it was 6 shots. This impressed me but I couldn't get them to do this at 100 yards. Not sure if it was me or the gun but I had a friend shoot it to the same effect so I think it was more the gun.

Overall, my opinion of the BAR's is that they are great hunting guns. A little on the heavy side but to me have a great feel and just great guns but unless you get a really good one just not so great of a paper puncher.

I kept seeing BAR's for around $600 to about $800 but they are usually the assembled in Portugal and a lot of them are grade I's. That's why I was curious if you got it cheaper.

 

[Radjxf]

Here's some impromptu pics. Had to act fast, it's about 30* here and gonna snow this afternoon!

 

[Maverick223]

That looks great, some honest wear from use, but pretty good overall. I expected much worse the way you described it earlier. Good buy.

 

[Horsemany]

As an aside, note that 3/4 of all the BAR's on Gunbroker listed as "Belgium" guns are Portugal assembled rifles.

Yeah....I hate that. I've told sellers there it's false advertising. By their standards every BAR ever made would be a "Belgium". That connotation should only be used for guns made AND assembled in Belgium. Looks like yours has a lot of life left in it.

 

[Radjxf]

I have no problem with Portugal guns, just the adverts. It is Gunbroker after all--buyer must really beware.

Bump for more info on what your old BAR's like to shoot.......

 

[hometheaterman]

Yep that thing looks a lot better than I expected too. Does the wood not have much finish left on it though or is it just finished that color? Either way it looks good. I really like the looks of that thing.

 

[Radjxf]

The wood actually has most of it's gloss finish intact. Most of the old ones I've seen have this "lighter" wood, the newer ones seem to have "darker" wood. I've no idea what type of wood this is?

 

[Horsemany]

French walnut. That's why they are pale compared to others.

 

[Runningman]

If that is 1968 than it would be a Browning salt wood gun. I would be looking under the wood if that is the case.

 

[Radjxf]

If that is 1968 than it would be a Browning salt wood gun. I would be looking under the wood if that is the case.

What is "salt wood" exactly.

I've torn this gun down completely (not fun) and see nothing out of the ordinary under the wood. Not a speck of rust, etc.

 

[Maverick223]

What is "salt wood" exactly.

It is not a type of wood as you might think, but rather a process that was formerly used to speed the process of drying the wood. The salt is absorbed into the wood and can lead to corrosion issues, particularly in the areas that are not exposed. If "salt wood" was used it would be wise to seal it with a lacquer or polyurethane (at least on parts that are in contact with steel) to prevent corrosion.

 

[hometheaterman]

So have you gotten a chance to fire this thing yet? How did it do?

 

[Radjxf]

It'll be a while before I get a chance to shoot. The closest public range is about 30 mi away, and I work a ton of hours.

Maybe this weekend or next.....

 

[Jason280]

I have the exact same gun in .270, albeit with a SN of 110** M7. I called Browning directly, and mine was manufactured in '67 (first year of production best I can tell). Mine isn't in quite as good condition as your rifle, but I was able to get the rifle for $400 cash. I lucked into a set of Beuhler bases and rings, and fitted it with a Nikon 3-9x40.

 

[cat9x]

to check for "saltwood" BAR's simply remove one of the buttplate screws and if it's heavily rusted then you likely have a saltwood stock...if not then you're good.

 

[mjoiner]

What happens in Portugal??

Been thinking of getting a new Bar. Whats the story with the Portugal assembled guns? Do they do a better job in Belgium? Or did they just do a better job a long time ago (when it was done there) like everything else these days?