BS Gun Stories

[Taurus 66]

The story was while on the job during my first break period earlier yesterday and was as follows:

At the time it's pitch dark when Roy hears a slight disturbance in front of his house so he chooses to pick up his 12 gauge and proceeds cautiously towards the noise outside in his driveway. When he gets to the spot, he sees a man in the process of unscrewing the license plate off his vehicle. Roy gets in close then racks the slide action to produce that notorious sound that only a pump action could deliver. Then he proceeds in the story to tell us the perp stopped what he was doing, stood up, and said, "Okay okay, no need for all that!" Roy then gave him a chance to leave the premises.

I wasn't part of the conversation but just had to step in and ask Roy, " Is it common practice for you to brandish a gun unto a stranger from a few paces, even though it was dark, the person was on your property, and apparently was either pranking you or at best merely thieving a license plate?" His reply was abruptly, "Yes!"

I then added, "You sound like you're a crackpot gunowner. You're a danger to yourself and others." Roy comes back with, "Oh it wasn't loaded, but he didn't know that." A gentleman sitting at the table then says, "Even worse!"

This guy is goofy when it comes to story telling. New York State has specific laws regarding when it is and isn't appropriate to brandish a firearm for personal protection. I don't believe this is one of those times. First, the perp was outside on his property and wasn't in his home. Secondly, the thief wasn't presenting a real threat to life or property (threat to property meaning arson or attempted arson).

I called BS on this one because Roy has a tendency to sensationalize many stories whenever he gets a group of people around. He has done it several times and likes the wow effect from the crowd. Even if the story was true, the days of Wyatt Earp are long gone. I felt Roy's approach to this disturbance was all wrong.

 

[sm]

Crooks too.

I once lived in a Apt Complex with a number of LEO types.
Quite a few Undercover. In fact arrangements were such for UC to be living at this complex.
US Marshall, Treasury, FBI, State, County and City. Ladies and Gentleman.
Undercover and Uniformed and Plainclothes.

Sometimes with various things goings on, Officers would come to town, live there, and then go to next assignment, and a new Officer move in. Just how set up.

Despite all the marked units, we still had idiots and the typical Apt disturbances.

One drug dealer got the hots for a UC Lady LEO.
She said "no" and he got his feeling hurt.
I mean he was stalking and following her.
She and her lady pard made this guy and let all the others know at the complex.

By golly, he was going to win her affection !
Gotta get good and drunk - the ladies really like when a drunk stalker comes to win affection.

He of course has to have his .357 stuck in his waistband. Part of "how to win a girls heart" of course.

He is banging and hollering and one of the UC Guys comes out and "quit doing that, I am trying to watch TV".

Now we have Officers , Plainclothes, real near watching this guy.

Staggering and going about this "Girlfriend" and they are getting married, and ...
"What is her name?" - neighbor UC asked.

Drunk Drug Dealer did not know.

"Let me get this straight, your GF, or Fiance' - the one you are marrying invited you over and you don't know her name, and being nervous, you drank the Listerine trying to sweeten your breath".

hic "yeah dude!"

Now the gun is visible, and all the UC/Plainclothes Cops "that" close, behind him...he does not know this...

Uniformed City Police come up, he clears his throat and Drunk Dealer turns around...sees him and other "folks".

Gun is snatched, and what does he do?
"Hey, we can be friends here, how much Coke you folks want for this to not happen?"

Oh yeah, he is cuffed, being led down to a Unit that showed up to take him down and insists these officers open his trunk. Shoe box full of baggies of Cocaine.

Seems nobody wanted the Coke, for all this not to be happening.

I was watching all this, with neighbors.
Funny part was word came back from other drug folks, users, dealers, that
"No way, we call Bull, nobody is that stupid!".

Oh yes he was!

 

[Robert Hairless]

You might be interested in reading this thread. It's well worth clicking on the link to the video in the opening post.

 

[RH822]

Taurus 66, jealous?? what you're saying is that the story teller had no right to protect his property or to himself from what he perceived as a threat. You simply want the story teller to go out and confront a thief empty handed and do what? Ask them politely to not steal his property?
The only thing I call BS on is your reaction to a man who had the balls to not be a victim.

RH

 

[Rodgerp]

So, RH822
You are saying that you could take a human life over a license plate?

 

[LightsOut]

This one time at band camp.....

 

[TexasRifleman]

You are saying that you could take a human life over a license plate?

How do you know the thiefs intentions? Maybe he was about to steal the car and was removing the license plate for the getaway.

Maybe he was going to go inside and murder the occupants and use the car as a getaway vehicle.

Maybe he was just going to steal a license plate.


Problem is you don't know.

Someone comes onto your property, your home, you have no time to wait and see what their intentions are.
In this case the thief was notified in a pretty clear way that he'd picked the wrong house.
Our hero here didn't shoot, didn't do anything out of line. He probably couldn't call the police because he lives in such a repressive state that he'd have been the one in jail since he used a firearm.

I don't think you can question how another man decides to protect his own home and property.

 

[Taurus 66]

How do you know the thiefs intentions? Maybe he was about to steal the car and was removing the license plate for the getaway.

At this time because there is no immediate threat to his life, the lives of those you he cares about, or his home, "to call 9-1-1, stand off, and let local law enforcement handle it rather than playing the hero role" would have been more appropriate. Let the thief have the license plate or car! Whatever! It's not a threat worth having a medical examiner picking ballistics out of your body because you went to a gunfight without shot shells.

If only you knew the guy... this is just one of several stories he has made up. Once when I talked to him about revolvers (about March or April of this year), he was clueless about +P or +P+ ammunition. On the same occasion I mentioned that I owned a Colt HBAR which is semi-automatic and he insisted my rifle was "illegal" because it had an "automatic capability".

Now here's a guy in his 50s who's owned guns for 30 years and doesn't know squat. He's got more BS stories (gun related or not) than Moses has turns on this planet.

 

[TexasRifleman]

It's not a threat worth having a medical examiner picking ballistics out of your body because you went to a gunfight without shot shells.

You can't change your argument midstream. No one is saying that going out there with an unloaded shotgun was smart, so don't make it about the gun being unloaded. We all agree that was a dumb thing to do.

The argument is about whether he should go out or not with a weapon (loaded of course).

 

[teknoid]

If I heard a disturbance on my property at night, and thought it might be an "unwelcome visitor" I would arm myself before investigating (loaded, of course). To me, it would be stupid to do otherwise. Lacking ESP, I have no idea whether the person I am confronting would be armed. What sense would it make if the perp was armed, and you weren't? 'scuse me mr. scumbag, while I go back into the house and get my gun probably would work as well as calling 911

 

[Taurus 66]

The argument is about whether he should go out or not with a weapon (loaded of course).

No. That's your own argument. The basic element I'm driving home here can be found in the thread's title. Sm had the right idea. Then it all fell apart. Oh well.

 

[RH822]

So, RH822
You are saying that you could take a human life over a license plate?

A thief is a thief. His own stupidity put him there and he had better be willing to suffer the consequences of that stupidity, that includes getting shot.

 

[Oleg Volk]

There's an ethical angle and a practical angle to this. The practical angle is that shooting people who are not posing a clear danger to your life is seldom good from the standpoint of your financial health or peace of mind. That said, going outside to run off a thief with a polite request can be a fine idea. The weapon is merely a backup in case politeness isn't reciprocated.

 

[Jeff F]

I have herd that in Texas after dark you can just shoot trespassers. Don't know if its true, just what I was told. Not something I would do.

 

[Regolith]

sm: Great story. After watching something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N4C0DLAF64
I can easily believe a criminal would be THAT stupid.

 

[jaholder1971]

Probably a BS story, but I'd have probably done the same thing except with a handgun.

KS has the Castle Law, which means no need to retreat on my property.

I don't go anywhere without carrying my SD piece, even to check on a strange noise or go lock up my truck after dark.

That screwdriver the perp's using is a deadly weapon, as dangerous as any knife.

Anyone stealing car tags is committing either identity theft or conspiring to commit another crime.

 

[RancidSumo]

What is castle law? Does Wyoming have it? And to get this thread back on topic, I know a guy who says he went turkey hunting and the turkey feathers stoped his 30-06 so he had to use a shotgun loaded #8 shot instead.

 

[Hardtarget]

This is how I look at it. If I see a crime in progress on my property I'll go out to stop it. If I am attacked...I'll shoot. This is not to stop the BG from "stealing my tags"...its to stop the attack on my person...there is a difference...right?

 

[Prince Yamato]

what you're saying is that the story teller had no right to protect his property or to himself from what he perceived as a threat. You simply want the story teller to go out and confront a thief empty handed and do what?

Keep in mind this is upstate NY folks, not rural TX. Whether legal or not, most people don't run out into their front yard with shotguns in upstate NY. Moreover, you must consider what a stranger or passer-by may see, behind closed car doors. If they don't hear the conversation they may think you're carjacking that person. Since CCW IS legal in upstate NY, they may stop, draw their gun, and shoot you.

 

[cnorman18]

champion BS artist

There was a guy on another forum who had to be the world's champion BS artist--or was till everyone called him on it at once. Then he vanished, big surprise.

This guy made Walter Mitty look like Audie Murphy. He claimed to be a veteran LEO with "15 years" of training at every facility you ever heard of--Blackwater, the SIG academy, Gunsite, you name it. He carried 3, count 'em, 3 Ka-Bar fighting knives at all times, along with various guns, usually some kind of custom XD. He practiced at the range "three to four days a week for about an hour or two, and spend about ten to sixteen hours there on the weekends... i normally go through about 600 rounds each time i shoot..."

(I decided to search and copy some highlights. It gets better.)

He was always giving advice as if he were the World's Greatest Authority on shooting and combat. Among other things, he recommended shooting a suspect in the legs to avoid killing him; leaving your gun in the holster and pulling a knife at close quarters; and checking local laws before buying or using a silencer (he didn't know that they're NFA-regulated items).

Then there was this gem: "...shooting back and using deadly force are two very different things...."

???

He also claimed the following: "...i have my WA permit, and non resident permits for NH and Mass and delaware, and Rhode Island, CT, and Florida. mass and FL require courses, but with these permits there are only about 4 or 5 states i cannot carry in...."

He was apparently unaware that if he were actually a LEO, he did not need a permit to carry anywhere in the US by Federal law.

Finally, there was this bit of wisdom (bear in mind that he is here speaking of a home-invasion scenario):

"...in most jurisdictions, the following applies: if you aim at the suspect and are intending to wound him, and you wound him, you are ok. now, if you fire at the suspect intending to kill him, and you kill him, you are ok. now here is the probably, because people have no grasp of the law...if you fire at someone intending to wound them and you actually kill them you can be charged with involuntary manslaughter, because you were not intending to kill them. and if you shoot at them intending to kill them but you wound them, not only can you be sued for the damages, but you can be charged with assault with a deadly weapon, or even attempted manslaughter...."

Everybody have a "grasp of the law" now?

 

[LightningJoe]

I have herd that in Texas after dark you can just shoot trespassers.

Well, you can theoretically use deadly force to prevent "mischief in the night time." This is presumably due to the fact that at night you can't see if the guy is armed and you're not required to let him shoot first.


Still, I wouldn't recommend shooting anybody who wasn't actually attacking you. Multiple reasons for that.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Taurus,

The story my Dad always tells is that when he was just starting farming some guy decided to make a 2 a.m withdrawal from Gramps gasoline pump. What he didn't know was that Dad was living in the tool shed next where said pump was located.

While the guy was busy cutting the lock on the pump Dad snuck up behind him. Just as the guy put the hose in the fuel tube of his car Dad put a very large caliber revolver next to his ear and pulled back the hammer... The 'click-click-click' of the action got his attention. Dad then proceeded to tell the would be theif he had two choices; to go into the shed and call the sheriff's office to come and get him or pick out anyplace on 1200 acres he wanted to be buried.

The guy chose the former...

Would Dad have actually shot him? It doesn't matter, all that matters is that the guy believed he would enough to call the law and beg them to put him under arrest... And (according to the ex- sheriff's version of the story) politely asked them to hurry.

Selena

 

[76shuvlinoff]

biggest BS I heard lately at work, no kidding.

" That woodchuck was 150 yards off but I had him the the crosshairs of my .308. Hit him dead square and he flew 50ft into the air."

 

[tacmedicp94]

What is castle law? Does Wyoming have it?



In Texas you con use deadly force to protect your property. Wouldn't recommend it though. Castle law basically states that in on your property you do not have to retreat from from a intruder. You can assume that they are there to do serious bodily harm to you or your family therefore the use of deadly force is allowed. Not sure if Wyoming has it.

 

[Jimmy Newman]

Castle doctrine as I understand it derives its name from the statement "a man's home is his castle." Essentially, it states that if you're in your home/habitation, you have the right to use deadly force to defend yourself and innocent third parties in your home/habitation from illegal trespassing or violent attack.

In other words, if someone breaks into your house, you can shoot them.

It is accompanied in some places by "stand your ground" laws which state that if you are in a public place that you have a legal right to be, you do not have a duty to attempt to retreat before using deadly force.

These are both also accompanied in some places by laws which protect shooters in the situations described from civil suits.

All three of these are a part of the new laws passed in Texas in September.

I do not know what the laws are in any other state. I am not a lawyer, this is my interpretation, it is not legal advice, you should not rely on me to know what I am talking about, etc. etc.