Build or buy next AR15?

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jagdpanzer347

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Hello all. Looking at building or buying an M4 style AR. I am leaning towards building one. Have been looking at Delton and MAparts kits, and DPMS and Stag lowers. My main question is: will a kit rifle built with qaulity parts have similar reliability, accuracy, and trigger pull compared to a factory built weapon? A friend of mine is a former armorer, so if I run into any problems I can get him to help me. Any input from experienced builders would be appreciated.
-jagdpanzer
 
I dont see any reason why your cant build an AR from a parts kit with the same relyablilty as a factory one. just make sure you stick with Delton or J & T Distributing and try to stay away from M&A. The only thing you gain with factory bought one is a warrenty. The things that are bound to break after a decent amount of shootinga are cheap enought to replace anyway (extractor/spring, firing pin, buffer tube spring, ect). trigger pull should be the same as factory ones, plus you can use the money you saved to buy a 2 stage!

BTW all receivers are the same pretty much so its just presonal preferance as far as what animal you want on it, a deer(stags) snake(bushy) a horse(colt) just to name a few

Just my 0.02 cents
 
My first AR is awaiting it's upper (on order, probably be here around the 24th).

Unless an absolutely stellar deal came along i don't think i'll ever buy a complete AR in my lifetime. Lowers are just too EASY to build, esp with teh right tools. in fact the only two parts i had ANY trouble with were getting the hammer pin in place, and the bolt catch pin is hard to get in without dinging the finish, both of these difficulties can be traced back to either inexperience with the setup (it's my first build) or a lack of the actual "right tool" for the job (there is a specialist asymetrical pin punch for the bolt catch installation.
 
Appreciate your replies fella's. What tools would I need to make the lower assembley job easier. Also, where is a good source for said tools?
-jagpanzer
 
Considering how most complete AR rifles are sold in very generic configurations, I'm surprised most people don't build an AR from components that they want rather than settling for a vanilla rifle from Bushmaster, RRA, Colt, etc.
 
The best part about building your AR15 rifle is knowing exactly what kind and quality the parts are that you install.
No second guessing the manufacturer and you can add or remove any feature at will.

I am completing my latest build, a basic A1/A2-C7 type rifle and the total cost with all Mil-Spec parts and the barrel and twist rate I desired will be $721.00
 
Appreciate your replies fella's. What tools would I need to make the lower assembley job easier. Also, where is a good source for said tools?

A punch set such as offered offered by Model 1 sales (Midway will be carying these soon, and also has another brand as well) + a brass or hard rubber hammer is a good place to start, many say to use a Dentent tool for putting the front pin detent in, but if not a proper size Allen key will work as a good sustitute if you take care, and if i had to do it over again i'd use one of the action Blocks that fit in the magwell, makes positioning and holding the lower for various tasks easier.

of course a sturdy but in expensive bench vise helps. and it sounds weird but electrical tape.. you put it anywhere that might be tapped or scraped by the tools int eh course of the assembly to prevent dings in the finish.

those are the things I personally know of that help getting one together, not that i HAD any of that when i did mine, i took the cheap way out and did it with a bargain punch set from Sears that i found was slightly over sized, a "toolbox" hammer, and other various and sundry improvisations for lack of the right thing. My lower is perfectly functional, and except for a few minor, small dings where the aluminum shows ( can't see em past 3 feet) looks like a factory unit.
 
Tools,,,,
These are the tools I have and consider neccessary if you intend to build both halves of the rifle.

1. A good vise.
2.A Peace River upper receiver action block.
This is used to hold the upper in the vise while installing the barrel.
It prevents bending or springing the receiver if you get too agressive while torquing up the barrel nut.
3. A Peace River lower receiver holding block.
This holds the lower receiver in the vise while you tighten up the buffer tube.
It has some other uses too.
4. Set of barrel blocks.
You won't think you need these,,,until you try and properly install a flash hider.
Remember to remove your gas tube before you put the barrel in these blocks and squash them down in the vise.
4.A 4 ounce brass or steel crosspane hammer.
Enough weight to drive all the pins, head isn't so large you bounce it off the sides of the receivers.
5. Set of roll pin punches.
Use these, do it right the first time and you will never overflair a roll pin.
A roll pin punch works well for setting the front sling swivel rivet too.
6. Set of roll pin starter punches.
Again, do it right the first time and you will never overflair a roll pin or walk a standard punch off the roll pin and put a nifty, professional looking, gouge in the side of your new receiver.
7. A GOOD barrel wrench, and there are several to choose from.
The old standby USGI wrench works great if you plan on using the torque wrench and don't plan on ever installing two piece float tubes.
Smith Enterprise or DSA handled wrenches are even better and more versatile.
8. 100 foot pound minimum torque wrench.
These aren't absolutely neccessary, but I was trained in the Army so I still use one to achieve a minimum 35 foot pound set of the barrel nut.
Army trains that if you are getting to 80 pounds and it ain't lining up then replace the barrel assembly or at least the barrel nut.
35-50 foot pounds will effectively set most barrel nuts and float tubes in place.
9.Long shank, hollow ground screwdriver.
Used for tightening the buttsock screws and the pistol grip screw.
I keep a long shaft Brownells screwdriver with the Magna-bit end and two bits, one hollow ground and one Hex for old style pistol grip screws, in my AR tool box.
10. Set of headspace guages.
Guys will tell you these aren't needed.
I guess they have never received a barrel that wasn't fully finished from the manufacturer.
I headspace every single barrel and bolt combination before any is ever test fired, no exceptions, period.
11. pivot pin installation tool, fire pin protrusion guage, bolt vise, gas block taper pin punch, M4 collapsing stock wrench, good quality fabric strap wrench.
These are not really needed but they do make life easier.
 
Onmilo, earlier you posted about the cost of your current AR build project being around $721 or so. Then you posted a mighty impressive list of useful tools to complete an AR project. For those of us pretty new to the idea of building "our own" could you give a ballpark "guess-timate" about the cost of the tools you recommend? All taken with the proverbial grain-of-salt..
Thanks! I really appreciate the thorougness behind your tool list post.
 
Besides the notes on ARF, I did mine with nothing more than a punch, plastic hammer, tweezers, and a toothpick. I used my feet and my desk for support. You don't really need a tool kit, but it would probably make things easier on you.
 
No tongue in cheek about it.
Tools will set you back another $400.00.

Here is the thing,,,
You build one rifle complete.
Then you build a couple of specialty uppers to expand the rifles potential.
Then you buy a collapsing or fixed stock to add more versatility.
Then you realize it is a big pain to keep switching stocks so you build another lower.
The price of the tools becomes lost in the insanity, see where I am going with this,,,,:D
 
I am completing my latest build, a basic A1/A2-C7 type rifle and the total cost with all Mil-Spec parts and the barrel and twist rate I desired will be $721.00

If you were to build an M4 style what parts sources would you use? I have priced the components using an RRA catalog and the price was the same as a complete rifle ($975).
 
Bushmaster for the bolt and barrel.
Rock River for the stocks and Brownells for everything else.
Buy spares of detent pins and springs.
I am good at building AR rifles and I still have these parts go flying every now and then.

Pick a lower but make sure you buy Mil-Spec forged, don't buy a cast lower.
 
Onmilio, do have any experience with the Delton kits? They seem to have a good reputation. I want to get an assembled upper for my first build.
-jagdpanzer
 
I'm afraid I have no experience with any specific parts kit.
Let me rephrase that, I have attempted to use kits for customer builds and the quality of some of the springs and small parts prompted me to send the kit back to the vendor for refund before any building was attempted.
Neither of these kits was from Delton.
I tend to piecemeal rifles together because I like chrome silicone for some springs, Stainless for others, this vendors stocks, this vendors bolts and carriers, this vendors barrels, etc.
And any one thing is liable to change from assembly to assembly since I also do this work for other people and what they want, or specify, is what they get.
 
Onmilo, I really appreciate all of your input. This has prompted me to do a little more research as I save money for parts. Best regards,
-jagdpanzer
 
Building is spades cheaper and really easy. Rather then using a hammer & punch set to install the roll pins I used channel locks. Make sure to tape up the jaws and don't attempt to even start the trigger guard roll pin unless the trigger guard is in place. You will break off the tabs if you don't have it there to support them. I picked this method up from AR15.com (I know, I know, but it did work).

As mentioned before pretty much any receiver you purchase is going to be good to go. I have Stag, RRA, BM and DSA receivers and the Stag was by far the best looking (no forge line and perfect radius on the back strap). Apparently only a few companies actually make the receivers and brand them for the company that wants them. I have also seen some of the receivers from Sun Devil Mfg and they are very nice.

AIM Surplus has good deals on Stag receivers ($90 each for two or more) as well as Stag uppers ($475 for M4ogery with flip up rear sight). I picked up the lower parts kit (LPK) from Stag as I wanted to make sure it was from them (~$70). The stock I bought (also Stag) from Eagle Firearms (~$70). You can get USGI mags from C Products LLC with chrome silicon springs and Magpul followers for under $11. For complete rifle (with all Stag parts) plus two mags you could get it below $750 or so. MSRP from Stag is $925.
http://store.stagarms.com/?page=sho...category_id=d5c9858c33ceb5fde95ab877270a1318&

Links to the places I bought my kits from:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/ (stripped lower, complete upper)
http://www.eaglefirearms.net/ (stock, stock tool $6, also have LPK)
http://www.cproductsllc.com/ (magazines)
http://store.stagarms.com/ (LPK)

Build it! Don’t buy it!
 
The answer to your question is definitely yes. The only subjective part of your question is how do you define "quality parts". Your definition, my definition, and somebody elses will all probably be different.
I build to get what I want. For me it costs WAY more than buying a new Bushy or RRA.
 
Building them is fun and usually cheaper. I've built 2 or 3 of them and enjoyed the experience.


Having said that my next AR15 will be a factory build Rock River Arms, Bushmaster or Colt M4.

Steve
 
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