Building a hunting cabin that doubles as an emergency compound.

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Oh, that is another idea... how about getting an old railroad cars, one of those big ones, and burrying that in the ground. How is that for a bunker? I wonder what Amtrack does with old railroad cars they no longer use. Some of them are two stories tall, with bathrooms built in. Running piping out to a septic tank should not be too difficult

Some people have been known to buy old cargo containers and make them into living structures. They are cheap and quite sturdy. Those are the big steel boxes that come in on cargo ships and get dropped onto semi trailers and trucked away with no unloading/loading required at the port.

They can be partially or completely buried if coated properly.

The main issue is getting them to your site.
 
Septic
55 gal drum septic tank that drains off to a single open chamber leach field.
$5 for the drum $35 for the chamber at Lowes. Only used for the toilet, shower and laundry drains to the vegetable garden.

Interesting you should mention this. Until a few years ago I would not have believed this story but the last time I had my septic pumped the guy that pumped it said he had installed my septic system and that the original septic system was a 55 gallon barrel buried in the back yard.

When the guy that lived in the house decided to sell, he had to put in a real septic system or it would have been near impossible to sell.
 
Septic
55 gal drum septic tank that drains off to a single open chamber leach field.
$5 for the drum $35 for the chamber at Lowes. Only used for the toilet, shower and laundry drains to the vegetable garden.

I love the ideas and creativity. Just wondering why there is such a concern about the toilets. Haven't you guys ever sh-- in the woods like a bear does? Of course, you might expose yourself to snipers during this process. ;) That would be an unfortuante way to go.
 
I love the ideas and creativity. Just wondering why there is such a concern about the toilets. Haven't you guys ever sh-- in the woods like a bear does? Of course, you might expose yourself to snipers during this process. That would be an unfortunate way to go.

Yes I have sh-- it the woods like a bear, many times.

And used a small shovel to cat hole it.

Thing is sometimes the wife (on rare occasions) wants to go and take a break with me.

Then it is not a real option for the woman folk -- in the dark at night .

A compost toilet works, and is in effect another source of --- energy . For Burning or planting.

They work. Plus you would not believe how many snakes _ copperheads for instance that are out at night and doing their thing.
 
Haven't you guys ever sh-- in the woods
I have also had to go a 2am in 20 degree weather, I want my inside toilet.

Prey animals are scared off by predator scat, too much in one area can cause disease and pest.
I'm old when I gotta go I gotta go I may or may not have time to wonder off far enough into the woods to keep the smell away (did I mention I'm old, we smell worse).
If you are planning on building a buried covert hideaway you don't want trackable sign laying around

Besides the fact that I am building my experimental bug out shack in the city where making poo poo in the back yard is frowned upon. (Unless you're still young enough to think that making poo poo is what it is called)
 
"if your cabin walls were built of actual solid logs, how thick would they need to be to stop powerful rifle rounds? i may have to take some logs out to the range and test penetration."

30-30 & .45:
Dry wood 30-30 goes through what seems like 15-20 cm. With green wood it didn't go through 10 often. .45 penetrates trees badly, only goes through saplings, but not 10cm trunks. Couldn't find small enough dry wood to shoot through. I'll bring a measuring tape and check next time, and try .223 too (if stores can get it in stock!). 5.56 is supposed to go through 20 inches of pine, or something like that, at 200 yrds iirc.

If you recall Josie Wales, though, the house they defended was made out of clay so it couldn't be burnt down. Also, if you're being besieged, the chances are that you don't need to be shot, hunger and thirst would do.

This is the most real threat, period. In theory a bad guy could do it, but much more likely is an accident happening. Fire is the big big big threat. People with log cabins here have to do lots of maintenance, coatings and stuff, to keep the things habitable. And you forget one candle, or don't notice one floating ember, and you wake up crispy and dead the next moring.
 
Settlers on the high plains of Kansas and Colorado (and other places) built "Soddies". These were almost "basement homes". A basement maybe five feet deep was dug and then the sides were built up with layers of sod. Then the roof was covered with dirt or sod also.

Being mostly in the ground, a soddy was cool in the summer and warm in the winter. The floors were usually dirt, but some enterprising wives would lay down a layer of straw, with gunny sacks or something over it for a primitive carpet. My dad remembers that a dirt floor is really quite clean, it gets packed and is kept swept. My great grandparents raised their thirteen children in a soddy, after homesteading in Colorado in 1907.

Also, it is my understanding that outhouses are illegal to build in many states anymore. But an above ground bathroom, plumbed to one of the small septic systems mentioned above, would work with a soddy.
 
A compost toilet works, and is in effect another source of --- energy . For Burning or planting.

They work. Plus you would not believe how many snakes _ copperheads for instance that are out at night and doing their thing.

Er.

Ahem.

Let me tell you the tale of The Great White Hunter And The Long Drop.

In Southern Africa, if you dig a deep hole and erect a suitable structure above it for use as a toilet, it's known as a Long Drop. They're common around hunting camps - dig your hole, put a wood crate on top with a suitably sized hole in it, build a thatch enclosure around it for privacy, and (if you wish) roof it with more thatch to keep (most of) the rain out.

So far, so good. I want you to get the picture. Great White Hunter wakes up at dawn (about 6-ish), groggy, sleep in his eyes, and more than a little hung-over from the previous night's "conversation" (he was young then). He heads for the Long Drop to void his bladder.

Upon entering the Long Drop, he opens his shorts, takes out the necessary plumbing equipment, and is about to do the deed when he hears a hiss and a rustle from down the hole. He performs an Olympic-worthy leap backward, out of the structure, hurriedly stuffing the plumbing equipment back into his shorts, and heads for his tent to equip himself for the fray.

Now, it's a well-known phenomenon that many snakes like Long Drop holes. They're considerably warmer than the veld at night, and the contents of the holes makes them even warmer (fermentation, decomposition and all that). Since the snake apparently doesn't have a great sense of smell, the odiferous disadvantages of the Long Drop aren't a factor in its consideration. The result is that one has to check one's Long Drop very, very carefully before sitting down on it. Tourniquets are hard to apply in those portions of anatomy, and as for sucking out the poison . . . well, as a friend of the Great White Hunter put it once, "Chum, if you get bitten there, you're gonna die!"

So, the GWH (in a combination of sleepy numbness and pee-delayed nervous tension) grabs his 12ga. shotgun and returns to the Long Drop. He points the gun down into the hole and cuts loose with both barrels of buckshot.

Unfortunately, the GWH, in his just-out-of-bed, hungover state, has failed to realize what two barrels of buckshot will do to the regular contents of the Long Drop, never mind the bloody snake. The contents of the hole duly levitate themselves upward and outward, splattering the entire enclosure - and the GWH - most liberally.

The GWH returns to his tent (strong men clearing a path for him) and spends the next hour bathing in the (approximately zero degree) stream, trying to disinfect, deodorize, and decontaminate himself. His hunting buddies, after sizing up the situation (from a respectable distance, compatible with the biological warfare restrictions of the Geneva Conventions) decide that the Long Drop, thatch, box and all, is unsalvageable, and set fire to it (with the aid of some kerosene) and burn it down, this being the only way to remove it in a sanitary manner. Many are their rude remarks about the destruction wrought on their only civilized amenity by the GWH.

The snake? Oh, no trace at all - it probably left in a hurry while the GWH was getting his shotgun.

As to who the GWH was? No comment. He pleads the 5th!

:D
 
Oh, that is another idea... how about getting an old railroad cars, one of those big ones, and burrying that in the ground. How is that for a bunker?

If you can bear the expense of transporting such a beast to your remote refuge (crane, low boy, big road bulldozed to get it on site, truck load of gravel delivered to put it on, etc., etc.) you'd be squandering your money to do so when you could spend the same money to have a contractor put up a suitable 2 room with 6 inches of sand fill in-between prefab insulated wall panels. Relatively bullet-proof, well insulated, wood heat, composting toilet.

Composting toilets have advanced to the point where they are odor free and very efficient. No plumbing and no septic system needed. My wife marveled at the ones in an off-the-grid community she visited. The only "down" side is that they have to be emptied of the compost and considering the advantages of having "indoor plumbing" in a remote location it's a fair trade. Keep a supply of sphagnum moss in stock though. http://www.sun-mar.com/products/Excel.php
 
Preacherman, great story!! :D

I would never have thought to look for snakes in there. I wonder how they can climb back out?
 
we often had rattlesnakes in the outhouse at grandpa's. most often they were in the house itself rather than the pit, but it was still something we made sure to check for. snakes weren't often shot unless absolutely neccessary. they were so easy to kill that he didn't think that you should waste a bullet on them.

composting toilets are so convenient that it makes sense, if you aren't going to have plumbing. outhouses stink and are fly heaven in warmer weather.

and don't forget Unforgiven, when you're in the outhouse, you've left yourself vulnerable to ambush ;)
 
Here's a good website on how much solar power costs with different examples of application sizes:

http://www.backwoodssolar.com/interests/HomeExamples.htm

It's pretty darn expensive, but we're considering it for our cabin (1200 sq ft log home) in addition to the Honda generator we already own.

Our SHTF setup: Cabin has 1 year's worth of "rations" for 4 people. We've got deer, elk, moose, grouse, squirrel, and a small garden all at hand too.

If the well pump goes down, there's a year-round clean creek 1/4 mile away.

Cabin sits on 100 acres of private land at 7000' elevation and is the only structure within about 2.5 mile radius. There are farms in the lowlands below and we've got plenty of camping/ survival gear to trade. There's only 1 road to our land, it has 2 locked gates that are impassable and the road (4x4 trail) ends at our cabin. Cabin also has a Ham radio setup, guns, ammo, etc. etc.
 
re preachermans expository on GWH, as a child, i summered in an area that often had outhouses as common accessories to homes. it was considered great fun to

A late at night (especially if the people were drinking,) to move the little house back about 4 feet.

B if this was inconvenient, taking some care to open an avenue for that little device of adolescent creativity(the cherry bomb) to fit into, and to wait for a customer of the long drop hotel to attain sseated position before lighting fuse and adding it to the mess below.

C wait until a customer had attained the seated or standing position and then pull the little cresent moon motel onto its door side, thus trapping the person within.....



just some old memories
 
Assuming you still want electricity, another option is a Lister engine powered by biodiesel. Lister's can be powered by almost anything, gas, diesel, motor oil, but by using biodiesel as long as you can get waste oil, vegetable oil, or animal fat you can grow/make your own fuel. Lister's run very slow compared to modern engines, but that means less wear and tear, plus they're easy to fix. Reports of 100K hours of continous operation aren't uncommon.

This guy reports running a 12KW generator down in Florida during hurricane season for 6-7 gallons of diesel a day, powering fairly substantial loads (...46 amps, around 9800 watts. We normally only ran one A/C at a time....All other aspects of life were normal with my kids leaving the lights on, TV's playing, computers etc.). This guy is generating power for 0.125 gallons of biodiesel/kilowatt. For a cabin, with a little forethought, and planned energy efficiency, I'd think you could run off grid for <200 gallons of fuel a month.

Where would you get the fuel? Make it yourself. If you're worried that you won't be able to buy waste oil or petrodiesel, plan on a 500 hundred gallons of onsite fuel storage, lay in diesel as a starter fuel at the first sign of trouble, then plant a few acres of of rapeseed/canola. Husband the diesel until your crop starts to come in or you secure more outside fuel. Rapeseed yields around 127 gallons of vegetable oil per acre, and what you don't use/need (and/or the left over meal) you can give away or sell as feed. You'd also need an oil press. One advantage of this situation is you could keep some of your fuel as seeds until needed, eliminating some of the hassle of traditional long term fuel storage.
 
ilbob, I'll bow to your engineering-fu. When I started looking into solar power I gave up after two weeks of intense effort (research and planning). In my meager defense, I was thinking of the three panels in parallel, not serial, just to get to the required voltage. I had nightmares of parallel runs of modules in series running to 48 volt charge controllers (?) running to similar parallel runs of batteries in series running to the inverter (?) for the highest conversion efficiency possible etc. etc. etc.

Fire good.
 
Hum...A lot of these responses are to Hi-Tech to be realistic. Although I like modern conviences, I have lived without them when I was young on a rural farm. You need a reliable source of water. A spring or good dug is all you need. What to do with the poop? A well designed pit privy will work fine for a long, long time. Grey water? It just empties into the rhubarb patch, I'd forget propane...a couple of rounds into a tank will make You wish you'd bought good kerosene lamps, wicks and learned to trim them properly. The Cabin? Logs and heavy wooden shutters would work well. Heat? a good woodstove with a top you can cook on. Or one of each......Just My 2 cents.......Essex
 
Preacherman: I read the same story or a similar version by Peter Capstick ;)


Also, it is my understanding that outhouses are illegal to build in many states anymore.
That is the case in Colorado for sure. The sewer nazis came out with a deputy sheriff to harass a friend of mine who was living on his land in a camper trailer (Fremont County). :(

That's the nice thing about Montana - you can build whatever you want in most counties without even a permit. ;)
 
Tallpine, yes, I knew Peter in South Africa, and I told him that story. However, I'm not saying that his version didn't happen - I'm sure it's happened many times over the couple of hundred years that hunters have been digging (and using) Long Drops in the bushveld! :D
 
Have you considered how to flush out squatters and other unwanted residents in your security plans? Finders, keepers; and all that...
 
FYI - There is a new solar cell technology under commercial development (similar to lithography) that could lower ther cost of cells substantially (factor of 4-10) and allow their integration in most exterior construction products (roofing, exterior siding, etc.). We'll know in about 4 or 5 years if it lives up to the hype. You might want to consider short-term alternatives until then.

I have some friends with a cabin in E. WA who use a gas generator to run their pump once a day to fill up the bladder tank and everything else runs off propane (stove/oven, refridgerator, on-demand water heater, and wall sconces in three rooms). It's a decent set up. Also, if you are worried aobut the propane tank you can buy one that can be buried.
 
natural gas well

I have mentioned this in another couple of threads, but i personally think it is a good idea. if you live in an area where natural gas production is prevalant you could probbly find some land with atleast one flowing natural gas well that doesn't produce water. wa la there is your fuel source for your generator. you still have many comforts you have grown accustomed to like air conditioning and heat (directly from natural gas). just my two cents
 
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