building a low pressure firearm with transparent materials?

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General Geoff

General Geoff

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I'm wondering if it would be possible to build a low pressure firearm out of some kind of very strong acrylic or other material that is transparent, for purpose of a high speed camera capturing the entire event of a discharge, completely visible to observers watching the slowed-down recording.

Any folks familiar with the stronger types of transparent materials think it's possible to do safely? I'd imagine such a thing would be fairly massive and single shot only, but it would be really cool for demonstration purposes... :)
 
Yeah, it's possible depending on how low the pressure is. I would expect it to be smooth bore, using a lubed patch and a wad card and be muzzle loading. It would have to be very bulky to contain even a few thousand psi. I hear BP can get as high as 10k psi, so it would have to be a very light charge of that even.

transparent alumina might be what you are looking for, but I don't know how brittle it is. Supposedly you can make relatively thin bullet proof "glass" out of it. It's not perfectly transparent, but it isn't opaque either.

http://lifeboat.com/ex/10.futuristic.materials
 
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10,000 psi? That's an incredibly dangerously low estimate.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzleloading_pressure.htm

The peak pressures cited are hardly the lowest pressures recorded in this barrel by black powder and black powder substitutes: 27,000 PSI, 29,000 PSI, and even 30,200 and 33,500 PSI peak pressures are published. No loose powder charge heavier than 120 grains was tested, so this is hardly any "limit."
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A pressurized air driven light weight replica could be made if you're just interested in demonstration BUT computer animation would probably be cheaper and safer.
 
Possible, in a limited sense. Awkward and bulky for anything but unreasonably low pressure.

A smoothbore running on just a primer would be doable, if you're careful. Probably have to do some paperwork on that one.

I know compressed air/Co2 models have been made, and you only need to deal with a fraction of the pressure.
 
There are some nanostructured materials being developed that can mimic the properties of steel. The material that I saw when I was at Oak Ridge was far superior to steel in many ways, but it had very poor corrosion resistance and it was difficult to machine. A short term fix for the corrosion resistance was a coating of some sort. This second limitation was overcome using a fancy process involving powders of the material of different grain sizes being cast and annealed at very high temperature, and a microscale welding process to attach components that had a geometry that made them difficult to cast. I believe the intended application was aircraft and eventually automotive engine parts. Once the materials science guys get a chance to refine and optimize the process, it should be available, at a premium price, commercially. My guess is that in 5-10 years you should be able to buy transparent firearms for demonstration if you are willing to shell out the cash.
 
I'm thinking the parts exposed to burning powder and projectiles wouldn't stay transparent very long. The heat and friction would turn the barrell into shower door glass pretty quickly.
 
There might be legal issues if you were to build it. See Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988.
 
il_10 - thanks for the correction. I wasn't thinking standard charges though, I was in the mindset of something closer to a 20gr charge of ff black powder, not a 100gr charge
 
a scuba tank has a working pressure of 3,000 psi, there is one air rifle that charges to that, the bandito by quackenbush, its about equal to a 45 automatic. 10,000 psi is nuts, im not sure there are many places you could even charge a weapon to that pressure. think more in the 5 to 7 hand pump range for a see thru gun.
 
gunguy - it would depend on the materials. a strong glass bore wrapped in aluminum oxide ceramics (very strong bullet proof glass) or frozen smoke (fairly transparent, extremely strong, and a super insulator) might be able to handle a 5-7k blast.

10k is a low pressure handgun round.
 
Umm...what is it, exactly, that this would allow us to see that is worth the effort? What takes place in the chamber and bore is already pretty well understood. The "event" itself takes place so incredibly quickly that the use of this device would require some very serious high speed photography for firing it off to provide any data at all. Plus, considering all the work-arounds necessary to work with the fragile transparent materials, I'm not sure that any data you did collect would really reflect what takes place in a high pressure gun.
This sounds like a pointless and dangerous stunt, at best.
 
Umm...what is it, exactly, that this would allow us to see that is worth the effort? What takes place in the chamber and bore is already pretty well understood. The "event" itself takes place so incredibly quickly that the use of this device would require some very serious high speed photography for firing it off to provide any data at all.
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Yes, hence why I said "for purpose of a high speed camera capturing the entire event".

This sounds like a pointless and dangerous stunt, at best.
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Most stunts are pointless and dangerous. So is skydiving. I don't see what you're getting at.
 
My point is that your project is a great deal of expense and effort to basically learn nothing. You could get the same shiggles out of making a muzzleloading gun out of an off-the-shelf piece of lexan tubing and filming it exploding. But, hey, dood it's your time and money. If you want to expend both making an overly expensive and complicated pipe bomb, have at it. You could possibly be the hero of the next 15 minutes on youtube, right up there with the guy who filmed himself firing 9x19 cartridges out of a Makarov pistol.
 
I once modified my blowgun via a water bottle filled with MAPP gas. Torched the touch hole, and it hammered a clothes-hanger dart through a 2x4. Might be a good halfway point for you:):)
 
Joe Demko, nowhere did I say I was going to construct one. I was simply wondering as to the feasibility of it. I don't have the resources or engineering expertise to design and construct something like this myself.
 
I think it could be done, at least for one shot. Imagine a fixture with a slot for a well supported window running the length of the powder charge. It would be interesting to see the flame propagation from back to front, and how consistent it was. It might etch the material too much for a second try, but if it showed a way to improve performance it would be worth it.
 
i suppose the big issue is what is low pressure, low pressure, in air/steam systems is in the under 1,000 psi range, 10,000 psi in air or steam systems is very high pressure. firearms work at higher pressures however it is in the form of a pressure spike, as opposed to an accumulator system that stores pressure over time. i'm sure with an unlimited budget something could be dreamed up, however it might be very expensive and not very portable, and not at all practical
 
I would imagine that it would be possible. When I was in my high school small engines class, we had a demonstration engine that had either a glass of polycarbonate cylinder and such. It showed the internal workings of a combustion engine.

So I imagine that a small firearm could be made. I would suggest a high strength polycarbonate for the chamber/barrel parts. I recomend polycarbonate because glass is very susseptable to pitting from hot fragments. I'm a welder and know this for a fact. Polycarbonate safety lenses last much longer and do not pit when hit with weld spatter(molten metal pieces). Glass pits instantly. Even tampered auto safety glass. Don't ask, the wife still hasn't seen it.
 
I don't think 10,000 psi with polycarbonate or acrylic is possible in any reasonable thickness, and I have some experience with materials at 5,000-6,000 psi.

You would be better off with tempered glass, which is much stronger, but there would be obvious safety concerns as well as the cost of manufacturing the thing.
 
why not just make this extremely thick something along the lines of a solid 8" cylinder with a hole bored in the center. if the hole was only a few inches deep the pressure impulse would be very short for say a small bp load
 
I can't remember where I found it, but I have watched a slow motion x-ray of someone firing a 1911. Somewhere on the internet...

Might spur someone's memory.
 
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