Building up my first AR, couple questions

Status
Not open for further replies.

DirtyBrad

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
421
Location
Maryland
This will be my first rifle. I'm going to build up a budget AR-15, primarily with parts from Del-Ton. I've done a lot of reading here and elsewhere and have things mostly figured out, I think, but thought I'd ask for some opinions.

I'm looking to build one with a 16" barrel and iron sights for now. I'll use it as a pretty all-around gun, I think. At the range, plinking, home defense, shooting at hurricane's, etc. I don't want to do anything wild to it. Pretty much your standard carbine with a collapsable stock.

Go wild:

1. For the barrel, M4 or heavy and why?
2. For someone who cleans his guns well after every trip to the range, chrome-lined barrel or no?
3. I'm leaning toward flip-up sights, like those made by YHM. Any big downsides like lack of accuracy, durability, wiggle, or anything else?
4. I like the idea of a grip that has storage for small parts. Useful in the real world, or just a gimmick?

I think that's it for now, but I'm sure I'll come up with others. Thanks, I look forward to hearing what you guys have to say.
 
I just got my first one last month.I bought a stag upper and lower.The upper came with an arms 40 buis.The sight is ok,but I'm gonna sell it and get a low profile sight,makes mounting a traditonal scope easier-clearance wise.I bought an ergo grip which is very comfortable and has plug in the bottom.I think it's more hype-unless you're in the service.
Mine has the m4 cuts under the handguards-I can't tell a whole lot of difference weight wise.The chromeline barrel is worth the difference in my opinion.
I have no experience with the flip up frt sights,but honestly don't have a problem with the fixed ones.
I also bought a detachable carry handle to see how I like it.I think I'm going to keep the carbine very simple and buy a twenty inch one to play with as far as different optics etc.
I don't know what it's gonna cost you thru delton,but I got my complete upper and lower buis for 710.00.PM if you want any specifics. Joe
 
1. "Pencil", "light", whatever you want to call it. Light is good.

2. Chrome-lined. Then you can put off cleaning until the next week. :) There's no real reason /not/ to go chrome-lined.

3. No downsides, just added costs. Consider a fixed rear BUIS, and start saving for an Aimpoint + mount.

4. My only experience with grip storage of parts resulted in lost parts.
 
1. For the barrel, M4 or heavy and why?

Mostly personal preference. The M4 barrel will be lighter by about 8oz and being in front of the barrel nut the difference in weight will be immediately noticeable in the handling. Generally it will also be more accurate than most of the people using it, even with a bench, sandbags and a big scope.

The heavy barrel will handle heat a little better and be more rigid; both of which should give you a tiny fraction of better accuracy and longer barrel life. In real world use though, the primary difference is that the heavy barrel is heavier.

2. For someone who cleans his guns well after every trip to the range, chrome-lined barrel or no?

Chrome-lining makes the bore easier to clean and the lubricity can make extraction a little easier in marginal situations. Chrome-lining will not make a poorly produced barrel any better or more reliable though and low-quality chrome-lining that flakes off can actually reduce accuracy as the chrome flakes off in the throat area.

Chrome lining also reduces the theoretical accuracy because it is impossible to deposit the chrome lining equally - meaning it is thicker in some spots and thinner in others. As much as you might think this would affect accuracy negatively, my experience has been that few people can shoot well enough to notice the difference and that the main determinant of accuracy is the quality of the barrel, not whether or not it is chrome lined. If you take a Mike Rock match barrel and chrome line it (like the GTS Operator barrels do), the barrel will still perform like a match barrel.

Chrome lining also is supposed to extend the life of the barrel (provided the chrome remains in the barrel). I've shot at least one chrome-lined barrel to the point it wasn't performing well for me at 500yds+. I didn't see any significant gains in barrel life over unlined barrels. A recent NDIA Powerpoint put the lifespan of an M4 chrome-lined barrel at about 10k rounds. That coincides with my own experience and if correct, suggests that any lifespan advantage offered by chrome lining isn't very large. At the same time, I've read lots of comments indicating that the chrome-lined barrels continue to provide acceptable accuracy at less than 100ds for considerably longer than unlined barrels. In some cases people have claimed about 150% more barrel life. If you are doing most of your shooting in this range, then that 150% improvement in barrel life is probably worth an extra $40-50 intial investment.

Right now I have a stainless steel match barrel that I am using like I used the old chrome-lined barrel. In another 7k rounds I will have a better comparison of how an unlined barrel holds up to the same use. Right now my gut tells me that if you can buy a better grade of barrel for what it would cost to add chrome-lining, you are probably better off with the upgraded barrel than the chrome-lining. If you can't, then the chrome-lining may be worth the investment.

3. I'm leaning toward flip-up sights, like those made by YHM. Any big downsides like lack of accuracy, durability, wiggle, or anything else?

Flip up front, flip up rear, or both? Since I like to shoot longer ranges occasionally, the main thing I dislike about flip up rear sights is that you rarely see one that offers both apertures and is elevation adjustable. Usually, you either get two apertures and no elevation adjustment or elevation adjustment; but only the small aperture. If you never shoot beyond 200M, this is a non-issue though.

On the flip fronts, they tend to use set screws, which can sometimes work loose and stop the rifle by obstructing the gas port. It isn't an issue that you can't fix by proper installation; but it can be an issue if done wrong. Unless I am using a 1x optic of some sort, I generally prefer the normal front sight base.

4. I like the idea of a grip that has storage for small parts. Useful in the real world, or just a gimmick?

Depends a lot on how you use the gun - I use mine on the range where I am usually within a kilometer or two of a toolbox with all the spare parts I have. I can see where being able to store extra batteries or a spare bolt and firing pin with the rifle would be handy; but make sure the concept is executed well. The Magpul MIAD is an example of a great execution of this concept - it holds stuff in the grip and keeps it from rattling around. The old Olympic grips with the sliding trap door on the bottom would be an example of what I consider less than perfect execution of the same concept.
 
I'm looking to build one with a 16" barrel and iron sights for now. I'll use it as a pretty all-around gun, I think. At the range, plinking, home defense, shooting at hurricane's, etc. I don't want to do anything wild to it. Pretty much your standard carbine with a collapsable stock.

Go wild:

1. For the barrel, M4 or heavy and why?

I'd go M4, if the choices are between an M4 and an HBAR (heavy). But make sure it is a real-M4 profile, and not an HBAR with the cut out to make it look "M4"...

If you can expand your choices, I'd absolutely, positively go "pencil"..sometimes called "super light". This is a .625" barrel. There's nothing negative about these, and they only offer more positives. Lighter IS better.

2. For someone who cleans his guns well after every trip to the range, chrome-lined barrel or no?

I'd get chrome lined regardless of cleaning habits. I clean every range trip, and I clean well. Chrome makes it easier, helps resist rust and other issues, and also increases barrel life. Only downside? Accuracy. But that only comes into play if you're building a $2,500+ precision rifle...and no one considers chrome for those anyway.

3. I'm leaning toward flip-up sights, like those made by YHM. Any big downsides like lack of accuracy, durability, wiggle, or anything else?

Well, I can't speak for YHM (I have the Troy)..but consider this. If you want the flip up sights so that in the future they work as back-up-flip-up iron sights...just get the rear and only the rear. One thing people seem to forget, is that let's say you're in some SHTF scenario and your optic fails. Having a front flip up is 2x the effort and 2x the time vs. having just the rear. To make matters worse, if you've shot more than 10 rds rapid fire...unless you're wearing gloves, that front sight will melt the skin off your fingers trying to engage it. Unless the front flip up is one of those designed to fit on FF rail systems...it's not going to happen. So from a practical standpoint, as well as speed in deployment - do a regular front sight base..and a rear flip up. Then for an optic in the future, get something that co-witnesses over the sight to minimize a cluttered view. That's what a lot of folks do. That's what I have on my set up.

4. I like the idea of a grip that has storage for small parts. Useful in the real world, or just a gimmick?

Doesn't seem bad at all. I think it would work. Now, I seriously doubt that its storage will come in handy for repairs "in the field"...there's only a couple of things that could break in an AR that would allow you to do a fast simple part swap. Most things would require pin punches, hammer etc...some breakages cause the rifle to seize up and that requires the rifle to be completely taken apart. A lot of people use these storage systems for batteries, as those are expendables and are a quick swap out.

Some forward grips allow you to put a spare bolt in there. That covers bolt and extractor. If you can fit a firing pin or cam pin there or elsewhere, that would be good. Fire control group parts rarely break. If they do, unless you've got a pin punch, you can't fix these easily. Some places sell a field repair kit with a number of parts, but you'll need an A2 buttstock which has a good sized compartment. You can fit pin punches in there too.

This is kinda/sorta related to the whole "bug out" scenario of a SHTF situation. Will you be in such a predicament where you will need to make repairs away from your home? Even if you're on a road trip to attend a class, go shooting in a far away rural place, or at the range...you can put these parts in the car, in your range bag or anywhere else.
 
Thank you all very much for all of the feedback - extremely useful.

I'm probably not the first guy to start off budget and get sucked in to all the cool stuff. I'm doing my best to stay cheap to get into it and save my dough for the next one (or five).

The chrome-lined barrel is really something to think about. As far as the M4, you guys have definitely sold me on that. I didn't realize it was that much lighter. Thank you.

As far as the sights go, I have to admit that I'm not being completely practical. I would like sights that I can use as backup with an electronic sight in the future, but I also think they look sharp and I like having something a little different.

Again, thank you for all of the useful information. Let's hear some more.
 
As far as the sights go, I have to admit that I'm not being completely practical. I would like sights that I can use as backup with an electronic sight in the future, but I also think they look sharp and I like having something a little different.
I don't think you are being impractical. There are good reasons for a flip up sight. However, I agree with what Bartholomew Roberts and Don't Tread On Me said about the front sight.

I have a red dot on one of my carbines, fixed front sight and folding ARMS #40 on the rear. I used to fold the rear sight to use the optic, however, I found that I prefer just leaving the large arperture up and sighting the optic's recticle through it. It's co-witnessed right to the tip of the front sight. It's no more distraction than using the iron sights would be, except that I can see it in low light and I can focus on the target rather than the sight. This rear sight has no elevation, only windage adjustment (I even use a same plane arperture, so flipping it doesn't change elevation). There are fixed rear BUIS that have standard A2 rear sight adjustments. I may replace this sight with one of them in the future seeing as how I use it.

ARFnSAR.jpg
 
REMEMBER! Make sure the M4 barrel you get, is the M4 barrel that is thin under the handguards. In other words, the barrel should be thinner behind the front sight, than it is forward of it. That's the correct profile, and it will be pretty light, although NOT as light as a .625 "pencil" aka "superlight"...


Regular front sight base (which is also the gas block)...and a rear-flip up sight is ideal.

When you add an optic, obviously the front sight is going to be in your view. So there's 2 options, both based on how high the optic is mounted. Some mount so that the front sight post is in the physical center of optics view, others mount higher, so that the front sight post is in the lower 1/3 of your view (giving you more of an unobstructed view). That's called lower-1/3 co-witness.


Best mount to get that lower 1/3 co-witness is the Larue mounts for Aimpoint. If you go the Aimpoint route. For EOtech, I'm not sure which one exactly, but I'm certain that they make risers for that.


For a rear flip up sight, it is hard to beat the Troy sight. It is very well made. And I like the A1'ish style detent windage adjustment. You can't accidentally screw up the zero. It also mounts real low and is somewhat streamlined and not bulky.

The ARMS is kind of neat because it springs up into action. Just pull the lever and pop - it's there. It is also less expensive than the Troy, and for all practical purposes, just as good. But for overall quality if you nitpick, I think the Troy edges it out.


Virtually everyone who gets into AR's wonders these same things about co-witnessing, which mount and whatnot. It can be time consuming to figure it all out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top