Bullet Failure?

[41magsnub]

I shot a 3 point muley buck at approx 75 yards Friday. It was a standard behind the shoulder cross body shot with a HSM loaded .30-06 Speer 165gr SPBT. The odd thing is that the exit wound was 4.75" diameter. I've never seen an exit wound like that in 20+ years of big game hunting. The whole chest cavity was filled with mush.

Obviously it got the job done and the deer dropped where it stood, but I think the round came apart going through the first rib. I worry about this because I had also planned to use this round on elk if the opportunity arose.. I'm concerned that it would blow up a tougher elk rib and not do what it needs to do.. or worse I take a shoulder or angled shot.

Last year I shot 3 deer with the same round from the same box and they didn't blow up like this one seemed to with the same shot placement.

Ideas?

 

[interlock]

.41,
HSM ? not sure what this means if it is a maxer then i think at that range the bullet was really moving very quickly. the speer spbt are designed for longer range shooting, like the sierra gameking. they are softer and more frangible than the hot cor range. So maybe not a bullet failiure... maybe just a little out of it's designed role.

i shoot .30-06 loaded with 165 gamekings on 60 grains of imr 4350 (a very stout load... safe in my rifle) i put this load together for longer range deer shooting over the bigger open fields we have in Lincolnshire. from my 7mm08 i use 139gr hornadies sp at a far more moderate pace. i use this for woodland stalking where most shots are in 150 yards.

i hope this helps

interlock

 

[41magsnub]

HSM sadly does not post the expected velocities and I don't own a chrony...

On last years deer one was a decent muley buck at 200+ yards where it performed just fine and the other two were whitetail does at 50 and 100 yards approximately.

That supports what you said, the whitetail does should be "softer" than the muley buck, and that buck was out there a ways.

 

[ZeroJunk]

I have used the Sierra 165 BT in a 30-06 for deer quite a bit. You are right in that it is soft, expands quickly, and often turns the stuff in the chest cavity to mush. That is why I use them. I tried some Barnes X buillets when they came out and they would just punch a small hole through a medium size deer and not have room to expand.

Now, I have also shot several elk and I use Nosler partitions because I want something that will penetrate better. The Sierra would probably work fine on elk most of the time, but no more opportunities than you are likely to get it makes sense to use a premium construction bullet. There are several good ones available these days.

 

[interlock]

.41,
You know, i don't chase velocity really anymore (although that 06 round of mine must be really getting on). i tend to go for accuracy and consistancy. my experience with the 7mm08 says moderate paced soft points of a decent wieght PUT IN THE RIGHT PLACE kills stuff a treat.

Zero,
I don't think that it is because they are not a premium. i think it is because they have a different design spec.

regards interlock

 

[ZeroJunk]

Zero,
I don't think that it is because they are not a premium

I didn't come up with that terminology. It's what is commonly used to describe bullets like Barnes TSX, Nosler partition etc. where you will think they are premium when you pay for a box.

 

[interlock]

Zero,
thats for sure!!!

you want to see the prices we have to pay here in the uk!

I know what you mean though

 

[Uncle Mike]

I worry about this because I had also planned to use this round on elk if the opportunity arose.. I'm concerned that it would blow up a tougher elk rib and not do what it needs to do.. or worse I take a shoulder or angled shot.

Your right! This is one of the reasons there are so many different bullets to be had. The Gamekings are soft, and do an excellent job, for what they were intended to do.

Elk and whitetail are substantially different in their muscular, with the elk being of thicker muscle, so, true, the SGK may not make it to the vitals if the shot is not placed in a pristine spot. I'm sure there are a lot of folks that will swear by this bullet for elk, if you have a concern, try a bullet with a tougher jacket that offers slower expansion.

 

[41magsnub]

This is the Speer BTSP, not a Sierra product

 

[grubbylabs]

Interesting topic since I use the same Speer BTSP in my 308 165 grain as well. I have yet to shoot any thing with a rifle so I am interested in this. I only have about 170 or so of them loaded up. They are a very accurate round in my rifle.

 

[interlock]

This is the Speer BTSP, not a Sierra product

in a .308 delivering more moderate velocities against lighter deer this bullet would be fine.

If i was looking for a bullet to use on elk i would probably look at the speer hotcor or grand slam, nosler partition or an a frame. they need to hold themselves together well so look for a controlled expansion or bonded bullet.




this is a speer hot cor 150 gr .30 cal bullet that i dug out of a huge log. i have shot big red stags and in one i recovered a 145 gr 7mm speer hot core from under the skin after quartering through this big animal, it had done the job and gone through plenty of bone. it was the same shape as the one in the picture above. it is an excellant bullet for a low price.

interlock (maybe this should be hot cor!)

 

[HGUNHNTR]

Sounds like the bullet performed perfectly. If I were elk hunting I might choose a bullet with a thicker jacket however. The Nosler Partition, Failsafe, Scirocco, A-Frame, all have worked well for me when shooting bigger boned critters.

 

[mbogo]

The huge exit wound was caused by the rib shattering and blowing out when your bullet hit it, not bullet failure. If the ENTRY wound was that large, then that would be bullet failure.

mbogo

 

[ZeroJunk]

This is the Speer BTSP, not a Sierra product

Sorry, dyslexic I guess.

 

[waffentomas]

mbogo is right. That bullet went in, did a couple of figure eights, back-flips and cannon-balls. When it decided it'd had enough, it left, probably well expanded, and at a leisurely 700 fps or so. Hit a rib, and at that slow speed, plus expansion, took out racketball sized piece of meat and bone. I want all my bullets to 'fail' like that.

Nice shot.

 

[alsaqr]

mbogo is right. That bullet went in, did a couple of figure eights, back-flips and cannon-balls. When it decided it'd had enough, it left, probably well expanded, and at a leisurely 700 fps or so. Hit a rib, and at that slow speed, plus expansion, took out racketball sized piece of meat and bone. I want all my bullets to 'fail' like that.

I love it when a bullet "fails" like that one did.

 

[Captcurt]

You will get 8 different opinions out of 10 people when it comes to bullet selection. If it stays together and goes through, it has done it's job. I would pick a little tougher bullet for elk though. You will probably get the deepest penetration out of a Partition. Grand Slams, Accubonds, Scirrocos, A-frames will give you less penetration but more frontal expansion.

Less face it. There is no perfect bullet.

 

[NCsmitty]

40 years ago, there were few boat tailed soft points available, and flat based SP was the standard used by most hunters. Cannelure's were the norm and they did help a little in keeping the core and jacket together.

Today, many hunters are on the BTSP or BTHP bullet ballistic wagon. Those hunters are finding that unless they use bonded core to jacket bullets, that regular BTSP can and do squirt the tapered core out of the jacket, and at close range, the resulting possible fragmentation can ruin a bunch of meat. Longer distance hits are a regulator of bullet performance, but often the deer won't cooperate and do pop out at 50yds or less.
That's why proper bullet selection is so important.

I use standard BTSP and BTHP, but only for punching paper.



NCsmitty

 

[Captcurt]

40 years ago, there were few boat tailed soft points available, and flat based SP was the standard used by most hunters. Cannelure's were the norm and they did help a little in keeping the core and jacket together.

Today, many hunters are on the BTSP or BTHP bullet ballistic wagon. Those hunters are finding that unless they use bonded core to jacket bullets, that regular BTSP can and do squirt the tapered core out of the jacket, and at close range, the resulting possible fragmentation can ruin a bunch of meat. Longer distance hits are a regulator of bullet performance, but often the deer won't cooperate and do pop out at 50yds or less.
That's why proper bullet selection is so important.

I use standard BTSP and BTHP, but only for punching paper.



NCsmitty

In all honesty, you get very little benefit out of a BT until you get out 400yds+. As Smitty said, they are notorius for shedding the jacket on close shots, especially in the butt kicking calibers. The only remedie is to go bonded or all copper bullet like the Barnes or GMX.