Bullet seating is inconsistent

[Shootin Blanks]

Hello, I am a super noob when it comes to reloading. I was given a lee progressive but wanted to learn how to properly reload on a single stage first so I am borrowing a lee single stage breech lock challenger. So far the process hasn’t been too bad. Between case prepping and charging I don’t feel kike I am having issues but when I seat the bullet I am getting a different depth every time. I verified the die is tight and not moving, the bullet depth adjuster has a good amount of tension in it so I don’t see that moving. The brass is the same manufacturer (second use brass). But it will sometime have an overall length of 1.100” but vary up to 1.110”. Would that be an issue? These are just target 9mm 115gr fmj-rn (Hornady) bullets.

 

[edwardware]

A variation of 0.010 could well be caused by variation in the bullets, between the nose and the area behind the nose where the seating stem pushes. Pull the stem out, and observe that it doesn't contact the nose, but a ring further back.

And, good on you for learning on a single-stage first!

 

[Bartojc]

What is the variance in the bullet itself ? Measure a half dozen or so and see how close they are. Measuring to the tip for COL I get variations but .010 is quite a bit, but .003 or so is not unusual. You could get a Hornady comparator and measure to the ogive which is more consistent.

-Jeff

 

[whughett]

His problem is OAL. So the bullets length has no bearing, regardless of its length the seating die will push it into the case until upward movement of the ram is completed.

Make sure your own use of the calipers is consistent, And the primer is below the bullets base slightly, so your not placing calipers lower jaw on the protruding primer. Check the nose punch to see if bullet lube has built up and is the correct nose punch for the bullet design.

You also need to use a consistent stroke with the ram.

I may also add that if the crimping station is not correct it can and will move a seated bullet.

 

[LiveLife]

Welcome to THR.

The Lee bullet seating stem does not push on the tip of the bullet rather further down the nose tip (FMJ RN tip actually goes inside the hole located at the center of the stem). Due to this, variation in nose profile we call "ogive" and variation in nose tip length can vary the finished OAL. Depending on the brand of bullet, finished OAL varying by several thousandths is usual. Also, tilting the bullet during seating will affect OAL variance (indicated by one sided bulging of case neck).

With more consistent bullets and consistent reloading practice, OAL variance of .001" is achievable.

To ensure more consistent finished OAL, you should inspect the seating stem to make sure it is clean without any build up in the bottom hole and make sure the ram is traveling fully to the upper most position. And ensure the case mouth is sufficiently flared and carefully set the bullet on flared case mouth so the bullet does not tilt during seating.

I was given a lee progressive but wanted to learn how to properly reload on a single stage first

Very good idea.

But when loading on a progressive press, finished OAL variance can increase from shell plate tilt/deflection. Different sizing effort could limit upward movement of the shell plate so be sure to check the resizing die under load to ensure you do not see daylight between the bottom of the resizing die and top of shell plate. To reduce progressive finished OAL variance further, consider separately pre-resizing the brass to reduce effects of shell plate tilt/deflection.

In this myth busting thread, progressively reloading on Pro 1000 using mixed range brass produced .003" OAL variance with RMR 115 gr FMJ but pre-resizing the brass reduced the OAL variance down to .001" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779806

BLAZER - 9mm RMR 115 gr FMJ:

• Regular: 1.115" - 1.118" = .003" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.115" - 1.116' = .001' OAL variance

R-P - 9mm RMR 115 gr FMJ:

• Regular; 1.115' - 1.118" = .003" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.115" - 1.116' = .001" OAL variance

WIN - 9mm RMR 115 gr FMJ:

• Regular: 1.114" - 1.117" = .003" OAL variance
• Pre-resized: 1.114" - 1.115" = .001" OAL variance

 

[Shootin Blanks]

Hey thanks everyone!!! Some great tips here!!!! I still have a few different loads to make up and I’ll try what you guys said. I will definitely put an update on here!

 

[LiveLife]

If you want to ensure accuracy and proper use of calipers, I suggest buying pin gages - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/measuring-crimp.860279/#post-11320703

"Proper use of calipers and checking for accuracy/wear - Like using check weights for scales, I recommend use of known standards/gages for calipers especially since caliper gears can wear and loose accuracy from use. Since measuring cylindrical objects could have different "feel" depending on the amount of pressure applied to caliper jaws, I prefer to use pin gages to check my calipers with my eyes closed so I can get more consistent feel/readings (as bullets and finished rounds are cylindrical) and improper use of calipers and worn calipers will result in inconsistent ... measurements.

You also want to use the same size pin gage as the items you are measuring since different parts of the caliper gears can wear at different spots. Since I mainly reload 9mm/40S&W/45ACP, I have .355"/.400"/.451" pin gages.

Pin gages can be quite affordable to have for each caliber you reload for. Here's Vermont Gage .355"+ pin gage for $4.61 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ks-for-digital-calibers.821135/#post-10545265"

 

[Phlier]

Some really great information given in this thread.

Only thing I can add is you need to make sure that the shortest load your press is throwing out is at least as long as the minimum OAL given for the bullet you're using. Going shorter than the OAL given in the reloading data can drastically increase pressures. Going longer than minimum OAL is fine, as long as it'll still chamber correctly in your gun. It isn't a bad idea to find the maximum OAL your gun can successfully chamber that particular bullet (there's a thread here that'll teach you how to do that). Once you know the maximum OAL your gun will feed that bullet reliably, you now have an OAL range: The minimum is the published OAL, and the maximum is the longest your gun will feed that load. As long as your press is producing OAL's in that range, you're good to go.

And welcome to a very fun and rewarding journey!

 

[Shootin Blanks]

Some really great information given in this thread.

Only thing I can add is you need to make sure that the shortest load your press is throwing out is at least as long as the minimum OAL given for the bullet you're using. Going shorter than the OAL given in the reloading data can drastically increase pressures. Going longer than minimum OAL is fine, as long as it'll still chamber correctly in your gun. It isn't a bad idea to find the maximum OAL your gun can successfully chamber that particular bullet (there's a thread here that'll teach you how to do that). Once you know the maximum OAL your gun will feed that bullet reliably, you now have an OAL range: The minimum is the published OAL, and the maximum is the longest your gun will feed that load. As long as your press is producing OAL's in that range, you're good to go.

And welcome to a very fun and rewarding journey!

Thanks i thought that whatever the OAL was that was what you had to set it. I have watched a bunch of videos on reloading and i swear none of them give you all the steps. I feel like the more i read the more i have questions haha. A local guy ran me through the quick process and i feel even he didn't show me half the stuff going on. My big thing is that i want to do this and do it right (and safely) because i really would like to get into loading 30-06 for my Tikka. I thought 9mm would have been a little bit easier but maybe through some more practice.

 

[LiveLife]

i thought that whatever the OAL was that was what you had to set it. I have watched a bunch of videos on reloading and i swear none of them give you all the steps.

Here are step-by-step for determining max OAL, working OAL, powder work up, optimizing accuracy of your load - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/help-with-9mm-loads-and-oal.851180/#post-11126373

When using fluffy powders, max case fill calculation step-by-step to prevent compressing powder charge when using shorter OAL - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/unique-advice.855365/#post-11215079

And if you are looking for greater accuracy, be sure to test for bullet setback as it's not the "finished OAL" that matters rather "chambered OAL" after any bullet setback experienced during feeding/chambering as small volume 9mm case can increase pressure from small changes - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...neck-tension-and-bullet-setback.830072/page-4

 

[Obturation]

Welcome to THR.

I have watched a bunch of videos on reloading and i swear none of them give you all the steps. I feel like the more i read the more i have questions

Do you have a proper reloading manual?
If not , get one. I recommend Lyman but any will give details you should know.
I know I'm not much help but my speculation would be only be a guess without seeing the equipment and components .
Good luck

 

[LiveLife]

Do you have a proper reloading manual?

If not , get one. I recommend Lyman but any will give details you should know.

Yes, good advice. I have Lyman #49 but Lyman #50 is the current reloading manual. The front part of the manual has information on safe reloading principles.

FYI, here's pdf for Lyman #48 - http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/Reloading Manuals/Lyman Reloading Handbook - 48th Edition - 2002 - ocr.

Also check out Reloading Library of Wisdom sticky - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/reloading-library-of-wisdom.649184/

 

[Shootin Blanks]

I have the Hornady 12th edition I believe and I did find that Lyman pdf a while back. I have also read the info on the accurate powder’s pdf

 

[LiveLife]

Great! Keep on reading and learning.

And if you have any questions, feel free to ask us and we'll try to help out as much as we can.

 

[FROGO207]

As stated above the seating depth for your bullet is the minimum for that particular max charge. It can be longer as long as it fits and feeds from the magazine and passes the referenced plunk test. If it needs to be shorter then the starting and max loads need to be reduced slightly. Don't forget to start testing your loads at 10% below max and work up.

 

[Shootin Blanks]

I think I am going to make a few rounds and record while I do it so maybe you guys can shoot me in the right direction. I just really want to make sure this is being done right

 

[Shootin Blanks]

As stated above the seating depth for your bullet is the minimum for that particular max charge. It can be longer as long as it fits and feeds from the magazine and passes the referenced plunk test. If it needs to be shorter then the starting and max loads need to be reduced slightly. Don't forget to start testing your loads at 10% below max and work up.

the Hornady book says 3.7-4.1gr for titegroup. I am making rounds with the following grains 3.7,3.8,3.9,4.0,4.1. I am making enough to shoot out of all my pistols to see what works best

 

[Varminterror]

His problem is OAL. So the bullets length has no bearing

This is not true.

 

[FROGO207]

FWIW I make a dummy round without primer to test what is needed to fit. I make it fit my hardest to fit chamber (tightest chamber). Then I save it to reset my dies to that particular bullet/crimp. If after I find one of my firearms is not accurate with that load I will work up another for that one and keep records for both and a different dummy round. I use a black sharpie and rings on brass for ID. Dont forget to mark each load and firearm used on the target and use one for each load when you shoot them. Less confusion and not a need to remember as much when you are busy. Analyze later and adjust your loads. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Phlier]

I think I am going to make a few rounds and record while I do it so maybe you guys can shoot me in the right direction. I just really want to make sure this is being done right

You are off to a great start, and with that attitude, you are going to be very successful.

the Hornady book says 3.7-4.1gr for titegroup. I am making rounds with the following grains 3.7,3.8,3.9,4.0,4.1. I am making enough to shoot out of all my pistols to see what works best

Hope we're not overwhelming you with too much information all at once, but... You need to (obviously) shoot the lower charge weight rounds first, and watch for pressure signs (there are threads that'll teach you how to do that) as you go up. You might find that, in your particular gun, you might start seeing high pressure signs before you reach that max published load. This is just my opinion and the way I do it, but I don't ever shoot a max published load in any of my guns without working my way up to it; if I see signs of high pressure in a lower-than-published-max load, I don't continue up any higher than that. And sometimes that ends up being quite a bit under what the book says is max published.

Again, just IMO, but I would stay away from shooting any max published load until the gun has proven that it's safe to do so. But then again, I'm old and chicken. But you might argue that I got old because I am chicken

 

[whughett]

This is not true.

These two cartridges are identical in OAL. The bullets in front are different lengths. Yet I load both with out changing the seating die.

My statement is general. What ever bearing surface of the seating die is acting on a bullet will only push that bullet until the ram is at full extension.
Different bullet designs will likely contact at different points.

 

[rfwobbly]

It is quite common for new reloaders to have variation in OAL despite having great equipment. IMHO, most of the issue boils down to the user simply not having a consistent swing and pressure in the operation of their op lever. Thankfully this sorts itself out after several weeks. When you operate the press, concentrate on being consistent, slow and steady.

A distant second place is the lack of case lube. Many new reloaders get the idea that "not needing case lube" is the same as "case lube doesn't help". Lubrication ALWAYS helps.

 

[Shootin Blanks]

It is quite common for new reloaders to have variation in OAL despite having great equipment. IMHO, most of the issue boils down to the user simply not having a consistent swing and pressure in the operation of their op lever. Thankfully this sorts itself out after several weeks. When you operate the press, concentrate on being consistent, slow and steady.

A distant second place is the lack of case lube. Many new reloaders get the idea that "not needing case lube" is the same as "case lube doesn't help". Lubrication ALWAYS helps.

I thought when using carbide dies lube is not needed? Should I run some anyways? I have read multiple time imperial case wax is really good. Is that true?

 

[Shootin Blanks]

You are off to a great start, and with that attitude, you are going to be very successful.


Hope we're not overwhelming you with too much information all at once, but... You need to (obviously) shoot the lower charge weight rounds first, and watch for pressure signs (there are threads that'll teach you how to do that) as you go up. You might find that, in your particular gun, you might start seeing high pressure signs before you reach that max published load. This is just my opinion and the way I do it, but I don't ever shoot a max published load in any of my guns without working my way up to it; if I see signs of high pressure in a lower-than-published-max load, I don't continue up any higher than that. And sometimes that ends up being quite a bit under what the book says is max published.

Again, just IMO, but I would stay away from shooting any max published load until the gun has proven that it's safe to do so. But then again, I'm old and chicken. But you might argue that I got old because I am chicken

Lots of really good info. I love it!!! I will definitely do what you said and watch for pressure issues

 

[rfwobbly]

I thought when using carbide dies lube is not needed? Should I run some anyways?

Do you know of any machine that doesn't run better/ smoother/ longer when lubrication is added ?

I have read multiple time imperial case wax is really good. Is that true?

Imperial is great for bottle neck rifle cases, but might be "over kill" for pistol cases. Two much cheaper and easier options might be...
• A basic Lube Pad from RCBS, Lyman, or other. You can roll 5-10 cases on there at a time and a minuscule amount of lube is transferred to each case.

• A case spray, such as Hornady One Shot or Dillon Case Spray. Lay all the cases on their side and apply a very light mist. Allow 24 hours to cure.

The object is twofold: 1) to use very little lube, and 2) have it only on the case exterior. It doesn't even need to be fully coated, because the random loading of brass will transfer the lube to all areas inside all the dies. The operation of the press then becomes far easier, with the result being a far more consistent product.

Hope this helps.