Bullet Swaging - I Need The Real Facts

[USSR]

I can't get enough RL 22 into a case to break 2800 with a 180 grain bullet. Do you have your load handy, with pressure data for it?

You guys need to stop over at http://www.snipershide.net/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm sometime. Do a search on .30-06 and 190SMK. Myself (USSR) and a former Marine with the site name of MontanaMarine have documented that the velocities that I mentioned are clearly possible out of a 26" barrel. MontanaMarine ran the load components and dimensions thru the QuickLoad software and, while it is a warm load, it is NOT a dangerously high pressure load. If I recall, the load ran at about 59k. Here are my loads:

Lapua brass
190SMK
60.7gr RL22
Fed 210M
3.303" COAL
2878fps

Norma brass
190SMK
61.4gr RL22
Fed 210M
3.303" COAL
2920fps

Norma brass in .30-06 is EXTREMELY light, with a large case capacity. When I had my rifle built, I sent Jack Krieger a dummy round with the 190SMK seated to the depth that I wanted, and had him chamber it accordingly. It is quite accurate, and with the above loads, I only need 29-30MOA from my 100 yard zero to reach 1k.

Don

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The Hodgdon 26th Edition Manual shows a 190 grain bullet achieves 2714 fps with 60.0 grains of Reloader 22 at 48,000 CUP -- SAAMI max for the .30-06.

59K, as you say, is a HUGE overpressure for the .30-06.

 

[USSR]

The Hodgdon 26th Edition Manual shows a 190 grain bullet achieves 2714 fps with 60.0 grains of Reloader 22 at 48,000 CUP -- SAAMI max for the .30-06.

59K, as you say, is a HUGE overpressure for the .30-06.

Vern,

We are talking different pressure measurements here. You are talking CUP pressures obtained using copper crushers, which typically runs atleast 10,000 psi below PSI. I am talking about the SAAMI PSI measurement of 60,000 psi for the .30-06 obtained by using piezo-electric transducers. As I stated, I am operating within the pressure spec's for the .30-06. Please check out the actual results obtained by myself and others.

Don

 

[cracked butt]

I don't know what the big controversy is... Commercial .308 win loads can push past 60,000 psi, there's no reason why you can't do the same with a 30-06 that is properly built rifle with a new receiver. A receiver from a .308 isn't made out of some magical material that isn't available to those manufacturing receivers for rifles chambered in 30-06.A lot of SAAMI specs are artificially low due to a model or run of rifles in the distant past that can't handle very much pressure- there are plenty of worn out 30-06 rifles out there along with some questionable springfields. A good example of this is the 6.5x55 which can be safely loaded a lot hotter than SAAMI specs in a new Ruger or SAKO rifle or even a Swedish mauser in good condition for that matter, but the lawyers aren't going to allow information to be given out that might cause some goober to lose his right hand and half of his face from reloading for a Norwegian Krag.

 

[USSR]

cracked butt,

Yes, there are cartridges where the SAAMI pressures are artificially set low in deference to old rifles still in circulation. The 6.5x55 is a prime example because, as you stated, there are still 100+ year old single lug Norwegian Krags out there. However, the .30-06 is not one of them. Using modern pressure gauges, SAAMI sets the '06 at 60,000 psi, while the .308 Winchester is 62,000 psi. As previously stated, my loads do not exceed the SAAMI specified 60,000 psi max pressure.

Don

 

[schmidtbender]

it's FM

As we used to say in USAF when a F-105 came home with a 3x3 ft hole in the wing..."it's FM"

That's what a 30-06 getting 300 winmag velocity is... FM

Let's just say no responsible bullet or powder maker is going to try to duplicate that load.

One wonders: "why not just build a 300 winmag to start?"

180 Sierra HPBTM
Rem.
3.34
24
Fed. 215
Reloder 25
82.3
3,112
60,600

can get messy putting 10 pounds in a 5 pound bag.

 

[USSR]

Let's just say no responsible bullet or powder maker is going to try to duplicate that load.

One wonders: "why not just build a 300 winmag to start?"

sb,

There are alot of loads that will never see the light of day with commercial companies. That's the whole point of reloading; getting what you can't get from the store. And, while it is true that you can get near factory .300WM performance out of a .30-06, it also holds true that you can get enhanced performance by handloading the .300WM. "Why not just build a 300 winmag to start?". Because I can duplicate the velocity of a 190SMK using 11 - 12gr less powder, I don't have to contend with that stupid belt, and have you priced the difference of Lapua and Norma brass between the two cartridges?

Don

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If I recall, the load ran at about 59k

You didn't specify PSI or CUP. And there really is no formula that allows one to convert from CPU to PSI or vice-versa.

I went to the site, couldn't find a thread on loading the .30-06 in the reloading section. I then searched the whole forum on .30-06 and 190SMK.

I found this by Montana Marine:

I don't use a drop tube. I have put up to 63gr RL22 in fireformed/necksized Norma brass. I just pour all the powder in, put my index finger over the mouth, and tap the base of the case lightly on the bench a few times to settle the powder, taking care to tap the edge of the case, not flat against the primer. 63gr under a moly'd 210 Berger yields 2810 fps from my 26.5" tube. 63gr was just starting to flatten primers a touch, I've settled on 62gr for my "hot-rod" load, at 2775 fps.

And:

The '06 firing a 190SMK at about 2875fps continues to perform well. At the June 17 1,000 yard F Class Match at Bodines, this mediocre shooter was able to shoot scores of 192-8X and 194-6X.

 

[perdurabo93]

As I said, I'm not a paper puncher. I couldn't care less how close together I can make paper holes. What I am concerned about is that once the supply of CBC/Talon pulled surplus 147gr M80 and 150gr M2 ball is gone that I will be stuck loading overpriced new commercial bullets (though I must admit I have a fair amount stocked up). The very best price I can get on bulk Hornady or Winchester 150gr FMJs is about 11 cents a round BEFORE shipping. Thats just totally unacceptable. I need to figure out a way to get M80-equivalent bullets at less than 10 cents a round delivered.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Well, why didn't you say so?? (that's a joke, by the way) Try this site.
http://www.goldenwestbrass.com/GoldenWest/GoldenWestWEB/bullets.htm
I've never bought their bullets, but I've seen their ads in Shotgun News for quite a few years, so they've been around for awhile. The bullets you're looking for are $170.00 for 2,000, plus $12.00 shipping. That will get you under your goal of $.10 per bullet and save you gobs of money and time in the long run.

Swaging bullets is kind of like trying to build a car from parts. You'll end up spending more for the parts than you will for the completed product, plus the tooling to put them together. I found out the hard way..........

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[rino451]

You're not alone. Same problem with .223 at the moment. I've resorted to buying pulled bullets - utter trash really - for what I used to get new Winchester 55gr .224 for a year ago. It's really sad. I wich the swage prices would come down a little - how about half of what they're going for these days. Component costs for swaging is still reasonale at least.

 

[USSR]

I went to the site, couldn't find a thread on loading the .30-06 in the reloading section. I then searched the whole forum on .30-06 and 190SMK.

Vern,

My apology. I forgot that about 1 month ago, Frank (site owner) went to a new server and software, and most of the archive info was lost. I had a thread all last year on the 100 year anniversary of the .30-06, devoted to loads being used and results. Sadly, it appears that the information was lost in the conversion. Why not start a thread in the reloading section asking about the loads being use and results that members are getting in regards to the .30-06? I don't mean to offend anyone here, but there is a "wealth" of knowledge on that site in regards to load development and long range shooting.

Don