Bullets / Ammo That Lose Most of Their Energy (Velocity) In a Few Yards

[HGUNHNTR]

Aguila used to have an "IQ" series of handgun ammo: light aluminum bullets with large HP cavities.

I believe there was some concern as to their effect on soft body armor, and Aguila stopped exporting them

They were actually zinc, and lack of sales was the cause of availablity. A company will not discontinue importation of some concern.

 

[conrad427]

what about an arrow?

 

[HGUNHNTR]

My pistol won't fire arrows. Even if it could I wouldn't want to get hit at 300 yards with one, unless you're talking about the type with little blue suction cups ont he end.

 

[conrad427]

well if you dont like that idea, what about a sling shot? All i am saying is that if a handgun has too much power for the situation, then the solution would have to be pepper spray or a taser. are you trying to kill a bad guy or teach your kids boyfriend/girlfriend a lesson. for what its worth i have killed a pheasant with a 20 ga wad after i missed him with the shot.

 

[Mike1234567]

Okay, as with many threads on THR lately, this may be descending into an abyss of maliciousness. Folks, my post was/is in earnest. It's about minimizing collateral damage due to having to use deadly force to protect one's own life or our family members.

Please, please, let's not turn this into a battle of vicious sarcasm.

 

[conrad427]

sorry for the jokes. I just dont know of a product that would fit your needs. Best i can think of would be a 12 ga. shotgun with birdshot which is quite effective at close range. seems to me that it would be a good hd option with about as litte collateral damage as possible.

 

[Mike1234567]

sorry for the jokes. I just dont know of a product that would fit your needs. Best i can think of would be a 12 ga. shotgun with birdshot which is quite effective at close range. seems to me that it would be a good hd option with about as litte collateral damage as possible.

No need for apologize for jokes. I'm obviously the world's worst about that.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your intent and I do appreciate your input... all ideologies/ideas are welcome!!

 

[pikid89]

THV Bullets

The design principle was to produce a very light bullet which could be launched at high velocity (hence the name THV = Très Haute Vitesse = very high speed). The bullets had a sharp point which in conjunction with the high velocity was intended to provide excellent barrier penetration. However, the sudden widening of the bullet behind the point was designed to generate a wide wound channel, and the light weight meant that it would quickly lose velocity, both in the target and (should it miss) in the open air. It was therefore only suitable for short-range use, and SFM only produced pistol rounds. As well as the three pistol loadings in my collection it was also made in .38 Special and .45 ACP.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/THV.htm

 

[Mike1234567]

pikid89... Those are interesting. I've seen other images of this type of bullet but never looked into the design. Do you have any more information on these?

 

[Owen Sparks]

THV are banned because they will defeat body armor. They were solid copper and turned out on a lathe.

 

[armoredman]

-An answer to a question that no one asked.

Pardon me, was remarking that IANSA's Rebecca Peters once said that she could only allow civilians to have single shot rifles that wouldn't fire any farther than 100 yards, during that interesting debate with Wayne LaPierre. Sorry if that strayed too far off the path.


Maybe you should just get the old beanbag Air Marshal stuff from the 70s.

 

[Mike1234567]

^^^ I've considered the dye-filled bags as a LTL deterrent but I'm looking for "real" defense at close range.

 

[BSA1]

Don't overlook small calibers and short barrel handguns. The 25 ACP is one such candidate when fired out of a short barrel handgun. Remember that stopping power varies from person to person and the mere idea that they have been shot may shop the attack.

If you were to find a medium or large caliber bullet that meets your request it would be perfect for Air Marshalls.

 

[Flechette]

It's about minimizing collateral damage due to having to use deadly force to protect one's own life or our family members.

I remember a company called "Mag Safe" that produced a bullet that sort of satisfies your need. It was some sort of pressed shot bullet with the shot glued together. The bullet survived being shot out of the barrel but broke up into individual shot upon first impact. This prevents undesired ricochet, through-wall shots, etc.

It also had fairly decent performance on the target, as it immediately fragmented into shot and spread out in the target, increasing chances of a vital organ being hit. The downside was low penetration.

 

[Mike1234567]

True about frangible bullets... but I'm looking for bullets that don't fragment, much anyway, and simply lose their velocity very rapidly. I think we can all agree that this requires hypervelocity combined with lightweight materials.

I don't want to go "high-tech" but, if one were to go that route, then bullets with timed "air brakes" could be used in addition to lightweight plastic materials. These would pop open (release spring-loaded fans) at the right time to effectively convert the bullet to a little badminton birdy. That may be silly and is certainly not economically feasible but it's a fun thought.

 

[GCBurner]

Going low-tech, there have been wooden bullets made for the .45 ACP. I remember an article about them in G&A quite a few years back. Their hand-turned handloads were based on the Danish Schuboe ammo. I believe the Sky Marshals experimented with nylon bullets, too, in an attempt to find something that would take down a hijacker without piercing the skin of the airplane, but couldn't get them to work acceptably.

 

[NM Mountainman]

Thanks, Pikid89, for sharing the info and photos on the THV ammo. It's a very interesting design.

Bean bag rounds, special rubber 12 ga rounds, and other less lethal ammo are examples of ammo with lower density projectiles which are lethal at close range and generally non lethal at greater ranges. Modifications of these designs can yield a wide variety of ammo types.

Lower density bullets (and other types of specialized ammo) for use at shorter ranges were thoroughly researched in the 1980's. Most of the results of this research is proprietary and is readily available technology which is sitting on the shelf waiting for a large enough demand and market to appear.

Many varieties and special designs for expanding bullets for a variety of special purposes have also been designed. Many special designs have never become commercially available because problems with patents, the high cost of manufacture, or the lack of a large enough market makes the introduction of the product seem likely to be unprofitable.

Some of the designs for expanding bullets feature the use of various kinds of expanders to fill specially shaped hollow points. The problem of getting good reliable expansion from bullets which pass through heavy clothing was solved through the use of some of these designs. But all bullet designs are compromises, and a design that works better in one situation may not work as well in another.

 

[ldhulk]

The old standby used to be a shotgun loaded with rock salt. Used on stray dogs, bad boys stealing watermelons, etc. If you had a 12 guage and a way to reload, plus some place to experiment, you could try various materials until you found something (wood, salt pellets, glass beads, beanbags, whatever) that served your purpose. See the Box o Truth website for a lot of info on penetration,by various projectiles.

 

[230RN]

Mike1234567:

These would pop open (release spring-loaded fans) at the right time to effectively convert the bullet to a little badminton birdy. That may be silly and is certainly not economically feasible but it's a fun thought.

In that same spirit of brainstorming, how about timing it with something like tracer charges. At the end of burning, it "did something," like allow the bullet to fall apart, or allow your "fins" to open up. For that matter, the reduction in weight due to the burning material coming out the tail would reduce its ballistic coefficient. Might be possible to have the burning "tracer-like" charge be massive enough to provide a good BC until it all went out the tail of the bullet... leaving nothing but a jacket to overcome air resistance.

(Don't take the word "tracer" too literally.)

Terry, 230RN

REF (Brainstorming):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainstorming

See especially "Osborne's Method" therein.

 

[7.62 Nato]

I was thinking shotshell with aluminum shot .

 

[GCBurner]

I was thinking shotshell with aluminum shot .

Or shotshell loaded with plastic AirSoft BBs.

 

[Mike1234567]

Some pretty kewl ideas so far. Keep 'em coming, folks.

 

[230RN]

GCBurner:

Going low-tech, there have been wooden bullets made for the .45 ACP. I remember an article about them in G&A quite a few years back. Their hand-turned handloads were based on the Danish Schuboe ammo. I believe the Sky Marshals experimented with nylon bullets, too, in an attempt to find something that would take down a hijacker without piercing the skin of the airplane, but couldn't get them to work acceptably.

Let's not forget the "guard cartridges" that were issued to sentries in almost all armies.... wooden bullets --though as far as I know, these were only for long arms.


Mike1234567, so when are you going to forward all these ideas to Ms. Rebecca Peters? You think George Soros will pony up some bucks for research on these ideas in order to fulfill her wet dream of a 100-yards-and-drop-to-the-ground projectile?



(Of course her ultimate goal would be to make these mandatory for "civilian" use, while admitting to the inherent right of firearms usage for self-defense purposes.)

Terry, 230RN

 

[Mike1234567]

Terry... Are you trying to hurt my wittle feelwings?

 

[230RN]

^ Ha-ha, no. Rebecca Peters' feelwings. Someone had mentioned her wet dreams (ultimate goals) in a previous post.

Oh, and George Soros' feelwings.