Bullseye shooting with iron sights

[saa 38-40]

My range has a great Bullseye group but it is small. I am just getting started and own a Clark Bullseye .45 and a Marvel .22 conversion plus the box, timer, small spotting scope, etc. I have a Ruger Mark II with a bull barrel that I intend to send to Clark for his rework.

My question is do you experienced shooters think one can compete with iron sights? I have Ultra-Dots on the first two guns and a new Ultra-Dot for the Ruger but I would rather use iron sights as my purpose in joining the Bullseye group is to have fun and improve my overall skill with handguns. I feel that getting used to using a dot sight will not help me much with my shooting pistols without dot sights.

Also any suggestions on which iron sights would be best. I am dying to try the Hanie (? spelling) stright eight sights.

 

[cavman]

Looks like you are all ready to go! Congrats and good luck.

You asked the question as to iron sights. There are still national records that stand with iron sights.

Many of the top shooters I know recommend irons until one is Master level. When I started 3 years ago with the .22 I had the Ultradot on. Now they are all off.

Also, one of the goals of some shooters (myself included) is to strive for, and become Distinguished. This, by Rule, is done with Irons.

You may be aware of this but here is a link to a terrific website: http://www.bullseyepistol.com/

If you have the .22 conversion already, you might want to stick with that. One gun. One trigger. If you listen to the recommendations of the Nation's best, "Trigger, trigger, trigger" is what one always hears. Getting to know that trigger and how it breaks, everytime, will make one a very strong competitor.

 

[saa 38-40]

Bullseye shooting with iron sigths

Thanks for the advise. I think I will remove the dots, I know the feel of the pistol will be better for me. I also have a Hammerli (spelling ?) SP 20 which is super accurate from a rest but I can't get used to the "feel" of it. I shoot the Marvel conversion better even though it is not as accurate from a rest.

 

[mike_in_md]

Using iron sights, it's easier to accept aiming area. As I developed better trigger control the red dot settled down giving the advantage to the red dot for calling where shots went. My scores are slightly better with a red dot. I like using iron sights to practice iron sight fundamentals for EIC pistol and distinguished revolver, and for fun during bullseye league nights from time to time.

A bomar type sight is preferred for bullseye.

 

[[email protected]]

This was with iron sights. Shot by the wife. 25 yds.

 

[earplug]

How good is your eyesight?

I switched to dots because my eyesight is poor.
I have found that the Bullseye practice has helped my other iron sight scores when shooting steel.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Your best bet with iron sights is the classic Patridge design. Which you already have.

The biggest issue that I've seen is that most American gunmakers keep equipping their guns with sights that are too narrow, both in the front sight and (even more) in the rear sight notch width. Take a good look at that Hammerli...you will find that the rear sight width is adjustable. Fiddle with it, find out what YOUR eyes like...then have it duplicated on the other guns.

I would agree that if you have a Marvel upper for a Clark wad gun, and a Hammerli SP-20, you really don't need the Ruger. I might fiddle with the Hammerli grips, though. Get the grip frame that allows you to fit wood grips, then find out whose grips suit you. Between Morini, Rink, and Nill, you should be able to find something that suits you perfectly.

And if you are shooting iron sights, run, don't walk, to get Dr. Toler's Custom Sight Picture kit. Use it, then have a pair of proper shooting glasses made up. If you are over 40, it will be one of the best investments you can make in your shooting performance.

 

[Sebring Pop]

I was taught to shoot with iron sights until I can shoot in the 270's. At that point you have all the bullseye fundamentals down pat and can shoot with an aimpoint. The reason for this is an aimpoint doesn't make you a good shooter it only fine tunes a good shooter who has all the fundamentals down pat. You must get the fundamentals down first then your off to the races.
Good Luck
Pop

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/

 

[zxcvbob]

I started shooting Bullseye 3 or 4 of years ago, and after a year my score plateaued at about 190 - 200. I was not happy. I put an ATN Digital Ultrasight on my gun, and my score jumped and started climbing.

This year, I've been having trouble with the Ultrasight. I noticed that all the good shooters in my club use a red dot sight, but all the great shooters use iron sights, so rather than fiddle with the Ultrasight, I took it off. Going back to iron sights hurt my score a little at first, but after two weeks I was shooting *higher* scores again with iron sights than I was with the red dot.

I'm not saying I have moved up to the next level yet, but I think maybe the red dot was a crutch that I needed to teach me to hold the gun steady (etc) and I don't need it anymore.

 

[SoCalShooter]

Back when I started to shoot bullseye I had a Ruger MKIII and I put a DOT on it and my shooting was good. I took the DOT off and my shooting was BAD I now only shoot with irons and I now shoot better with irons than I ever did with dot. It was suggested to me by a distinguished EXPERT in both rifle and pistol and several other competing areas that if I want to compete in EIC matches I need to learn to shoot with the irons his explanation was that shooting with a DOT can cover up what you could be doing wrong, for iron sights there is less margin for error.

 

[zxcvbob]

The dot helped me quite a bit (for a while); my eyes are old enough that I couldn't see how unsteady I was holding the gun. I thought the sights looked good, but the dot was jumping all over the place enough that I was surprised to hit the paper.

 

[Sunray]

Some competitive shooting requires iron sights. ISSF is one of 'em. So are most Olympic disciplines.

 

[saa 38-40]

Thanks to everyone who has commented on my question. I have gotten alot of good advise and suggestions. This is extremely helpful for a "new" guy.
OTDP, I am sixty two, wear glasses but I still prefer the way my guns feel without the UltraDots so I am going to persure the iron sight route. I will experiment with the Hammerli before I sell it. It is a fine pistol but it does not feel like a 1911. The Marvel is mounted on a "70" series Ace frame and I had Clark work the trigger to where it "feels" just like my wad gun. I want the Ruger worked on because I can't stand the trigger and like all my guns, rifle or pistol, to be as accurate as I can get them.
The suggestion about the glasses is a great one and will probably be the best investment I can make. It is time for me to have an exam anyway.

Thanks again for all the great feed back, this is the most productive site I have used to date. Keep up the great work.

Where can I get Dr. Toler's Custom Sight Picture Kit ?

 

[cavman]

Dr. Toler is out of Richmond, Va. I think one of his two offices is on Cary Street.

Here is a High Road link from this past Spring:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=360389

Here is LTC Toler's website: http://customsightpicture.com/sight picture-using.html

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

I shoot BE with irons!

OK, I do have a dot on my primary rimfire gun, but my backup rimfire gun has irons on it. My wad gun is a slightly tightened up 1911 with irons on it. I'm 16 years younger than you and don't have perfect vision. I wish I had much more time to practice, because I know I'm capable of shooting better than I do, (consistently). Once in a while I'll string a set of targets like these.

Slowfire @ 50yds

Slowfire @ 25yds

-Steve

 

[Sunray]

"...the Hammerli..." You have to work up a load or try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo it'll both shoot well and cycle the action. They're well respected, high end, target pistols, not 1911's. The closest comparison is a Mack truck and a Ferrari. Just not the same thing.
The triggers on Ruger .22's are poor due to Ruger's fear of liability law suits. Mind you, they're entry level pistols too.

 

[penman53]

Iron sights

If your eyesight is still good enough to shoot iron sights do so. If it ever gets to the point where you are unable to "see" the front sight, it is time to get glasses that enable you to do so then fine. I have been told by everyone in my bullseye area that if you can shoot iron sights do it. But once you do go with a Dot, your pretty much stuck with it. I started shooting with a dot because I wore glasses already, was 56 years old and figured that I needed a dot. Not to mention the fact that a dot looks so cool. But what do you do about service pistol? Either you shoot the EIC matches and get by with iron sights or you simply pass on the EIC. It's your call. No matter what, please have a good time like I'm having, I am not a fantastic shooter but I still love to practice and compete in the bullseye matches. Let's keep the sport going.

Mark, Edmond Oklahoma

 

[Flobert]

Bomar sights are the way to go.

Make the sights fit your eye. By this I mean, file etc the rear notch, use a wider front blade, whatever it takes to make a sight picture that's right for your eyes. Too narrow white gaps on either side of the front blade keeps you too busy watchin' em. Too deep a notch in the rare takes attention away from keeping the front blade level with the top of the rear notch.

Use a carbide lamp to keep 'em black.

Use a pinhole to look through clipped to your glasses on your shooting eye. Use a translucent, not dark, shade over your non-shooting eye.

Consider getting some shooting glasses with a lens that brings the relaxed focus of your shooting eye to your sights.

Irons aren't any harder than a dot, the thing the dot does is, you focus it to your eye, solving much of the shooting glasses and aperture problems, you get a dot the right size for the target/center of target, solving the proper sight picture/size problems. A dot also adds weight to the gun, which helps but there are other ways to do that.

Myself, if I wanted to watch a bouncing red ball I'd play a video game.