Bump sizing or Full length resizing

[marine one]

Hi folks, right now I'm still sizing the neck only on brass that was fired in my rifle, after a while the bolt starts to get harder to close on those neck sized cases. someone said to bump size those cases
about .002 for the bolt to close smoothly.
I'd figure to ask you guys about this and any comments you have, they also mention about using a
full length die or a body die to do this.
RSVP thank guys!

 

[Blue68f100]

I FL size all the time. But I limit the amount I move the shoulder back. For bolt a bare minimum 0.001"-0.002" for a simi auto I shoot for 0.002"-0.003". I have std and Redding's Type S dies. These have a body die which allow you to size your brass and since it's a bushing you can neck size with out or minimal expander use.

 

[forty_caliber]

I also FL size all the time. I need hand loaded ammo to function in both bolt and semi-autos to eliminate the need to keep bolt only ammo separate. So I bump .002-.003 for everything.

In practice, in an ideal world that shoulder bump should be enough. Sometimes it is, sometimes it is not. This is the reason I case gauge every piece of brass that passes through the sizing die. Some brass is tougher, work hardened, or has thicker walls. If it won't pass the gauge, you may need to increase the amount of sizing. For .308 I sometimes have to resort to a small base sizing die to get a cartridge to pass the gauge.

After sizing the next most important task is trimming the cases to uniform length. This will help ensure uniform neck tension across the cases and is instrumental in getting an even crimp. A small amount of crimp even on cartridges destined for bolt guns will help improve consistency (this one of those things in life where less is more...easy does it).

.40

 

[PWC]

Don't see annealing on your list. It will help with the sizing. Look up annealing using the socket method; (least xpensive and you probably already have the tools to do so) try a few before you go too far down that road.

Don't be surprised if this thread gets a b'zillion hits; yes that's with a "b".

 

[Walkalong]

"Bump" sizing is full length sizing, you just don't move the shoulder as far as the sizer is mechanically able to.

Some people (People I respect) neck size until things get too tight, then use a body die, but I don't see why.

I'm all for full length sizing every time but measuring to make sure you don't move the shoulder much. Brass life will be just as long, and you never get bit in the butt with a round that won't chamber or locks up a gun during a match, or a hunt. If it does it at the range playing around, ok, but I still don't see not partial full length (bump) sizing all the time.

 

[Chuck R.]

I FL size all the time. But I limit the amount I move the shoulder back. For bolt a bare minimum 0.001"-0.002" for a simi auto I shoot for 0.002"-0.003". I have std and Redding's Type S dies. These have a body die which allow you to size your brass and since it's a bushing you can neck size with out or minimal expander use.

This is my method also, FL bushing dies. For those calibers that I have multiple rifles in I use die shims to adjust the amount of sizing. I have my dies set for FL size, then back them off to the correct amount. I record the shim and bushing used on a card that's kept with the brass. I keep my brass separate and it's by individual gun. Between limiting working my brass and annealing I get some great brass life, basically it keeps going till the primer pockets get loose.

For semi's (ARs and a FAL) I full length size.

I also have an annealing machine (BC1000), so my brass gets annealed every firing, two at the most.

 

[CptnAwesome]

I'm all for full length sizing every time but measuring to make sure you don't move the shoulder much. Brass life will be just as long, and you never get bit in the butt with a round that won't chamber or locks up a gun during a match, or a hunt. If it does it at the range playing around, ok, but I still don't see not partial full length (bump) sizing all the time.

Agreed, My method as well

 

[GotHim]

What caliber? What application are you using this rifle (hunting, precision/competition shooting, etc.)?

 

[marine one]

Don't see annealing on your list. It will help with the sizing. Look up annealing using the socket method; (least xpensive and you probably already have the tools to do so) try a few before you go too far down that road.

Don't be surprised if this thread gets a b'zillion hits; yes that's with a "b".

Hi PWC- I'm pretty known to this so can you tell me what is " socket method".

 

[edwardware]

Controlled FL sizing is the way to go. Using a FL die and good measurement equipment, bump the shoulder back ~0.002 from the most-grown fired position. That minimizes sizing, and maximizes function.

 

[FROGO207]

The socket methox is to use the appropriate sized deep or other socket chucked into a hand drill and slowly rotate it for long enough to anneal only the neck and shoulder using a propane torch. They have crayons that turn color to indicate when things are annealed. Called TempLac. Just make sure the web area is not heated enough to anneal it and make it weak.

 

[marine one]

What caliber? What application are you using this rifle (hunting, precision/competition shooting, etc.)?

I have two (2) different sizes, 7.62 & 223 I have Redding dies and Lee dies for both.

 

[PWC]

Hi PWC- I'm pretty known to this so can you tell me what is " socket method".

Find a socket in your tool box, that is a loose fit when you put in the case, head first. Put it on a 6" extension. Dig out your butane/propane torch. How you secure the tourch is up to your imagination, you just don't want it to fall over or move after you set it. Get a damp towel and lay it out near the torch. Get a handfull of sacrifical cases, and put one in the socket.

Lite the torch and adjust it for a sharp blue cone 1/2 to 3/4 inch long. Hold the shoulder of the bottleneck case in the blue cone and rotate the extension to evenly heat the shoulder and neck ONLY. Watch for the color to change; a kind of straw to light blue grey (youve seen this color before of you have shot military brass). Immediately remove from the flame and tip onto the towel to cool and stop annealing process. You only want to do the neck and about 1/16" below the shoulder. (This is a little subjective depending on caliber. I only shoot 30-06. 22 Hornet, and .223 may be a little different). NEVER HEAT CASE TO WHERE THE NECK TURNS RED! CASE WILL BE OVER ANNEALED AND IS SCRAP.

IMPORTANT: while turning the case in the flame, count, say nursery rhime, anything with a repeatable cadence. Note when the case changes color and is annealed. Now, this will all be dependent on how hot YOUR torch is (butane, propane, MAP gas), how well YOU maintain the case position in the flame and how fast YOU turn the case.
You will trash your first attemps, but YOUR PROCESS will come pretty quickly. I have found that if you rest the extension on something, it helps keep a consistant position in the flame. I use a board with a "V" and rest it in the notch.

Now, this post will draw any manner of comments from "it's Ok", to "my way is better", "get an annealing machine" ($$), or "you have to have a temperature indicating device (templaq)". They do thier job well, but are not really needed. Depends on how much brass you have to process, and how much time you have to do it in.

If you get into serious competative, one bug hole at 1K yds, you will need the machine consistency, but from your post that is in the future.

 

[GotHim]

Some good info...I used a very similar process with different brand components when i shot competition. 308 and 6mm some years back.

 

[JFrank]

I’m not a big fan of neck sizing for the reasons posted earlier @Walkalong
I’m also not a big fan of annealing Unless it is consistent, and repeatable.
J

 

[marine one]

Find a socket in your tool box, that is a loose fit when you put in the case, head first. Put it on a 6" extension. Dig out your butane/propane torch. How you secure the tourch is up to your imagination, you just don't want it to fall over or move after you set it. Get a damp towel and lay it out near the torch. Get a handfull of sacrifical cases, and put one in the socket.

Lite the torch and adjust it for a sharp blue cone 1/2 to 3/4 inch long. Hold the shoulder of the bottleneck case in the blue cone and rotate the extension to evenly heat the shoulder and neck ONLY. Watch for the color to change; a kind of straw to light blue grey (youve seen this color before of you have shot military brass). Immediately remove from the flame and tip onto the towel to cool and stop annealing process. You only want to do the neck and about 1/16" below the shoulder. (This is a little subjective depending on caliber. I only shoot 30-06. 22 Hornet, and .223 may be a little different). NEVER HEAT CASE TO WHERE THE NECK TURNS RED! CASE WILL BE OVER ANNEALED AND IS SCRAP.

IMPORTANT: while turning the case in the flame, count, say nursery rhime, anything with a repeatable cadence. Note when the case changes color and is annealed. Now, this will all be dependent on how hot YOUR torch is (butane, propane, MAP gas), how well YOU maintain the case position in the flame and how fast YOU turn the case.
You will trash your first attemps, but YOUR PROCESS will come pretty quickly. I have found that if you rest the extension on something, it helps keep a consistant position in the flame. I use a board with a "V" and rest it in the notch.

Now, this post will draw any manner of comments from "it's Ok", to "my way is better", "get an annealing machine" ($$), or "you have to have a temperature indicating device (templaq)". They do thier job well, but are not really needed. Depends on how much brass you have to process, and how much time you have to do it in.

If you get into serious competative, one bug hole at 1K yds, you will need the machine consistency, but from your post that is in the future.

Ha PWC, the cases I'll be using are 7.62 x39 and 223 cases. thanks for all of this,I don't know when I'll be doing this but I'll have it.