Burnt Brass

[Ed Gallop]

I have been reloading 45 Colt amo with modern powder (not black powder) and there is a lot of burnt areas that blacken about half or more of the brass after firing. I'm using new brass and the powder load called for with the Lee Loader. I can polish off some of the black but not even most of it. Is there anything I can do to prevent the burning of the brass? Ed.

 

[Sunray]

It's not burnt. You're seeing carbon from firing. Leave it in your tumbler longer.

 

[Car Knocker]

Mild loads?

 

[Ol` Joe]

Low pressure is a common cause of discolored brass. Are your loads on the lighter side?

 

[Ed Gallop]

The spent casings drop out when unloading. Could it be light loads will not expand the rim enough to prevent the gas from entering the cylinder? I'm using .7 cc (10.3 gr.) of HS7 in 45 Colt brass with 255 gr. bullet. That is what the powder chart called for. I expected more energy but am new to the early cartridge guns. I'm hesitant to add more because it is a Heritage Rough Rider and I'm not sure of how much load is too much. Ed.

 

[Walkalong]

Could it be light loads will not expand the rim enough to prevent the gas from entering the cylinder?

Yes. The case mouth is not expanding enough, or long enough to contain the gases well. Typical of light loads.

Also, Tightgroup is known for this. It's the "Tightgroup Stain".

 

[Ol` Joe]

The only data for Hs7 I can find in the Speer, Lyman, Sierra, Hornady , Hodgdon, Nosler, and Lee books, are for the Nosler 250 gr and a 260 gr in the Lee book. I don`t think this is a good choice for powder in this cartridge as it is quite abit slower then Hs 6 which is widely listed in all books.
The data I did find thugh shows your load of 10.3gr to be a starting load, not a bad place to learn from. If you have a scale I`d recommend adding a 1/2 gr to your charge and see if the soot clears up. You may have to go up a full gr or two to get enough pressure to prevent your dirty cases.
Low pressures, which the 45LC operates at, does`t expand the case mouth and body quickly enough to prevent gas from blowing back down its walls. The trapped gas deposits soot under pressure which is what you are seeing. If you have a Ruger, or TC Contender you can raise the pressure some above the std for the cartridge. I don`t feel this is the best way to prevent this though, If top std loads don`t work, a change in powder would be much more useful IMO. A powder such as Unique, Blue Dot or Herco will give top 45LC velocities within the SAAMI pressures set for the cartridge, and burn much cleaner to boot.
If you are useing lead in place of jacketed bullets the called for start/max charge will vary and data for the proper constructed bullet should also be followed.

 

[RecoilRob]

Another thing to try is to only partially resize the case....only as much as you need to hold the new projo. This leaves the case body a bit larger and closer to the chamber so it will (hopefully) seal better at the low pressures you are running.

 

[Walkalong]

Try a faster powder if your looking for a light load. It will get the pressure up and stop some of the case staining if it bothers you.

If you are looking for full power ( standard pressure .45 Colt - 14,000 PSI) try some Universal Clays. I think you will be pleased with it.

Speer # 13 gives 7.2 to 8.0 Grs for 815 & 883 FPS with a 255 Gr. lead bullet. I would start at 7.6 and work up.

W231 will work as well and give more pressure with light loads than HS7. (W231 - 6.1 to 7.0 - 700 to 784 FPS with 255 Gr.)

Speer # 13 does not show any standard pressure loads with HS7. They do, however, show loads with HS7 in their "For Ruger and Contender Only" section. (they put the pressure at "roughly halfway between standard .45 Colt data and .44 Mag pressure")

 

[Ed Gallop]

When I bought powder at the local gun shop I was unsure what to get for the 45 Colt. The gunsmith looked at my Lee chart and suggested HS7. He said the powder listed really didn't make much difference but apparently it does.

I'll increase the load a gr. and that should solve the problem. If not, I'll move on to a faster powder. I learned a lot from this thread. Many thanks to all you experts. Ed.

 

[Hawk]

I've noticed a fair amount of case-crud from my Trail Boss "mousephart" loads - a receipe I'd picked up from the CAS set. Oddly enough, apart from cases, it shoots cleaner than either the Winchester or old PMC "cowboy" rounds.

I gather from this thread that nobody has heard of light loads / no case expansion actually damaging the firearm from the "blowback"? I heard that today from someone who's forgotten more than I'll ever know. It doesn't seem intuitively obvious as the barrel and cylinder are routinely exposed to such gases without being behind a sealed cartridge wall.

Anybody heard of this low-pressure unexpanded case firearm damage thing?

...sure hope not.

 

[Walkalong]

Thats one reason to try to avoid it.

It would take a lot of shooting with heavy loads of slow burning powder with poor crimps, I would think, to actually do damage. I don't know. Obviously, if hot high pressure gases are going elswhere besides down the barrel it could do damage eventually. The only thing keeping those hot gases from coming back in your face in a rifle is the brass sealing the chamber.

 

[Hawk]

grumble

I'm not shooting CAS formally so I'm not particularly attached to those nerf loads I've been cranking out. I'll wick it up a notch or two until I'm getting sufficient expansion. Wonder if I'll have a problem getting there with Trail Boss?

Apart from possible damage, as the OP noted, the nerf load cases are a bear to clean. At least the ones I shot will save wear and tear on the sizing die.

 

[Hutch]

As all have said, it's common with light loads. The 10-dollar description is lack of "case mouth obturation". Y'oughta see what a really light load of Unique does

 

[Ed Gallop]

I increased the HS7 powder load by 1 gr. and there was no change in amount of burnt brass. I tried the faster HS6 and still no change. I am wondering if it is the Heritage Rough Rider 45 cylinder raher than light loads that causes so much blowback.

It takes a lot longer to clean the brass but if it is a more serious problem I'd sure like to know. I've only fired about 200 rounds so far and no apparent damage. I've been using Winchester and Remington brass. The blowback is about the same for both and the same for all chambers of the cylinder. Anyone ever heard of this before? Ed.

 

[Walkalong]

Trail Boss works real well for light loads in the .45 Colt. I had tried it with .44 Mag and I tried some in the .45 Colt this weekend. You will get a clean burn with no residue, but the cases will be sooted up pretty bad. Not that hard to clean though. I tumble them with corncob and Midways Franklin Arsenal case polish. They come out shiny clean.

The cases seem "sooted" more than "burnt" like Tightgroup or a light charge of some powders do.

 

[Ed Gallop]

My burnt brass problem is solved thanks to the advice here. It takes a small fraction of the time to clean the 45 Colt brass with Unique than HS7 or HS6. Next time I'll give Trail Boss a try, then... After the gun wears our I'll have tried them all. Ed.

 

[Ed Gallop]

I may have reduced the burnt brass but the problem was not fixed. Final solution... The revolver had a defective frame. Returned it to Heritage and they sent it back (overnight express) saying there was no problem but they only checked the timing. The cylinder was not rotating as freely as my other revolvers and noticed a gap between the cylinder hub and barrel. There was friction between the barrel and cylinder. This prevented gas from escaping so it blew back on the cartridge. Returned it a second time and they sent a new replacement. The new one works just fine with no leading or blackened brass.

Took a while to find this thread for response but here it is. Thought you might want to know. Ed.