Bush authorized NSA to spy on Americans

Status
Not open for further replies.

rick_reno

member
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
3,027
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10488458/

NEW YORK - President Bush authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States — without getting search warrants — following the Sept. 11 attacks, The New York Times reports.

The presidential order, which Bush signed in 2002, has allowed the agency to monitor the international phone calls and international e-mails of hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of people inside the United States, according to a story posted Thursday on the Times’ Web site.

Before the new program began, the NSA typically limited its domestic surveillance to foreign embassies and missions and obtained court orders to do so. Under the post-Sept. 11 program, the NSA has eavesdropped, without warrants, on as many 500 people inside the United States at any given time. Overseas, 5,000 to 7,000 people suspected of terrorist ties are monitored at one time.

The Times said reporters interviewed nearly a dozen current and former administration officials about the program and granted them anonymity because of the classified nature of the program.

Government officials credited the new program with uncovering several terrorist plots, including one by Iyman Faris, an Ohio trucker who pleaded guilty in 2003 to supporting al-Qaida by planning to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge, the report said.

Resistance within NSA
But some NSA officials were so concerned about the legality of the program that they refused to participate, the Times said. Questions about the legality of the program led the administration to temporarily suspend it last year and impose new restrictions.

Caroline Fredrickson, director of the Washington legislative office of the American Civil Liberties Union, said the group’s initial reaction to the disclosure was “shock that the administration has gone so far in violating American civil liberties to the extent where it seems to be a violation of federal law.”

Asked about the administration’s contention that the eavesdropping has disrupted terrorist attacks, Fredrickson said the ACLU couldn’t comment until it sees some evidence. “They’ve veiled these powers in secrecy so there’s no way for Congress or any independent organizations to exercise any oversight.”

The Bush administration had briefed congressional leaders about the program and notified the judge in charge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the secret Washington court that handles national security issues.

Aides to National Intelligence Director John Negroponte and West Virginia Sen. Jay Rockefeller, the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, declined to comment Thursday night.

The Times said it delayed publication of the report for a year because the White House said it could jeopardize continuing investigations and alert would-be terrorists that they might be under scrutiny. The Times said it omitted information from the story that administration officials argued could be useful to terrorists.
 
Caroline Fredrickson, director of the Washington legislative office of the American Civil Liberties Union, said the group’s initial reaction to the disclosure was “shock that the administration has gone so far in violating American civil liberties to the extent where it seems to be a violation of federal law.”

Deep shock. Serious deep shock. Really serious deep shock. Extremely serious real deep shock. Very extremely serious real deep...
 
It can't be so. This is America! It can't happen here. BTW I know a guy in the AF reserves that said he would fire upon Americans if need be. I told him he needs to be hush hush about what he says because his team mates may line him out in the long run.;)
 
Seems like we need to institute a program under which every public official who swears an oath to protect and defend the Constitution has to actually read the bloody thing.

Nothing new here. Just another of El Presidente Jorge's "laws don't apply to me, I'm the President" gambits.

(Yes, I voted for him ... but only because the other guy appeared worse)
 
ka50 how right you are
"its for the Children" or "its for your security" two mottos that will bring down this nation.

With the "no knock" warrrents and now with no warrents at all this Administration is going WAAAY to far.

I wonder how many voters the GOP has lost??
 
Folks, the NSA has been monitoring foreign communications for decades. That's their job. That's why they exist. Constitutional protections don't apply on foreign soil (so they say), and they never have. That's why the NSA has gotten away with eavesdropping on foreign phone calls for decades.

This has nothing to do with George Bush Jr. At least, nothing more than it did with Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter, and probably even farther back.

I know you (including NBC) all hate Jorge, but you oughta temper you're ravings with a little rationality from time to time. Otherwise folks might begin to think you're irrational. ;)
 
So, the NSA gets the information directly, rather than from Great Britain and Canada indirectly as part of the Echelon project. Usually, people don't complain when gov't achieves the same result for less money.

E-mails aren't private, and international phone calls are so heavily controlled by third parties to conversations that the expectation of privacy is rather low as well. There's a reason why they say not to do any business over the phone or via e-mail you wouldn't want the world to see. This is but one of those reasons.
 
Caroline Fredrickson, director of the Washington legislative office of the American Civil Liberties Union, said the group’s initial reaction to the disclosure was “shock that the administration has gone so far in violating American civil liberties to the extent where it seems to be a violation of federal law.”

Anybody else see the irony in that statement? For once, I think the ACLU is stumbling onto something bigger than their usual narrow, and somewhat misguided focus. Will they read their own words and "get it"? I doubt it.
 
The Bush administration had briefed congressional leaders about the program and notified the judge in charge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the secret Washington court that handles national security issues.

Like the program or not (and I don't), sounds like at least some of the legal requirements were met. IANAL and so don't know if this was enough.
 
Headless Thompson Gunner said:
Folks, the NSA has been monitoring foreign communications for decades. That's their job. That's why they exist. Constitutional protections don't apply on foreign soil (so they say), and they never have. That's why the NSA has gotten away with eavesdropping on foreign phone calls for decades.

This has nothing to do with George Bush Jr. At least, nothing more than it did with Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter, and probably even farther back.

I know you (including NBC) all hate Jorge, but you oughta temper you're ravings with a little rationality from time to time. Otherwise folks might begin to think you're irrational. ;)

That's almost right - but since we're not playing horseshoes here, almost right doesn't count. In the past, when the NSA wanted to monitor foreign embassies and missions located in the United States, they obtained court orders to do so - a little something called a warrant. Under the post-Sept. 11 program, the NSA has eavesdropped, without warrants, on as many 500 people inside the United States at any given time. Overseas, 5,000 to 7,000 people suspected of terrorist ties are monitored at one time.
 
I believe the warrants for foreign embassies applied to embassies on American soil. The intelligence court doesn't have jursidiction over foreign soil, and thus no authority to regulate activities performed there. Intelligence gathering conducted within the US is the focus of the court, not intelligence gathering outside of it, which falls within the purview of the Executive Branch and the congressional oversight committees.
 
I am with Headless on this, I see nothing wrong with the government listening to my phone calls. A court order would only get in the way of the government protecting us from the evil-doers. Rick Reno obviously must have ties to terrorists if he is opposed to the government scrutinizing his phone calls. Shame on you Rick. Now tell us where Osama is.

Remember the old Ben Franklin quote:

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, are usually Republicans.

At least, I think that is how that quote goes, isnt it?
 
:cuss:
you know what?? giving up the constitutional freedoms that people fought and died for, just for the illusion of security, is disgusting. Those of you who support it are more sheep than any anti-gunner. Sorry if that seems harsh, but I'm sick of bush's nonsense. Time to impeach these nuts and get our country and our collective honor, back. Now that diebold is beginning to circle the bowl,(CEO resignation, lawsuits, etc.) there just might be a chance to clean house in '06. No more republican-friendly elections. Repubs see the writing on the wall, that's why(along with demos) they rejected the patriot act extensions today.
As Tracy Chapman sang... " Don't you know, talkin' bout a revolution, sounds like a whisper". :D
 
buzz_knox said:
So, the NSA gets the information directly, rather than from Great Britain and Canada indirectly as part of the Echelon project. Usually, people don't complain when gov't achieves the same result for less money.

E-mails aren't private, and international phone calls are so heavily controlled by third parties to conversations that the expectation of privacy is rather low as well. There's a reason why they say not to do any business over the phone or via e-mail you wouldn't want the world to see. This is but one of those reasons.
Why should I have any less of a reason to expect my email to be safe from prying non-warranted government eyes than I should my phone calls or letters in the mail? Should I be expecting to get my postal mail pre-read as well?
 
Old history here. The NSA is part of Eschelon which also included the Brits, Aussies, and Kiwi's. Want to get a take from the US? Ask the Kiwi in the cube across the hall to request it. Substantial rumors have existed for years of the NSA listening in on DC politicians. Remember the Newt Gingrich episode where Ma and Pa Kettle just happened to have a Radio Shack scanner customed tuned to the cell tower Newt's phone was using. They also just happened to have a recording studio tape recorder attached to the custom modified scanner. Some presidents have been more ruthless in exploiting the capability than others.

Carnivore?

Been going on for a while now.

Now the rest of the story. Seems the author of the article is writing a book on the same subject to be published in 10 days. The editor of the new book is the same editor who did Richard Clark's book. Furthermore, the NYT has had the story for one year and held off publishing. The Whitehouse requested a delay but was refused. All that's missing is the interview on the today show and 60 minutes.

Move along, people. There's nothing to see.
 
W won?
I think not.
The Patriot Act is going down in flames.
Yippee.
Now he crossed the line me thinks.
And as noted by HawkMoon certainly didn't live up to his oath to "Protect and Defend". I'd say impeach him but that would leave us with President Chaney!!!! That won't do.
What a mess.

AFS
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top