Bush Impeachment?

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Campaign Finance Control is no different than a plethora of fed.gov actions over the last, oh say 50 years. What chapped me is
--there was no public demand for the legislation.
--It was an inside baseball issue.
--Bush made a big deal of what he wanted to sign the legislation that no one wanted.
--Congress gave him nothing of what he wanted to sign the legislation that no one wanted.
--He refused to act as a leader by telling congress to back off or give him what he wanted.
--Then when presented with bad legislation rather than vetoing it he signed it
--And prior to signing it he commented that it was probably unconstitutional.
--He capped off this sterling performance by hoping the supreme court would rule it unconstitutional and do what he failed to do or had the courage to do.

CFC is a startlingly clear example of what is wrong with congress, Democrats, spinelessrepublicans, Bush and the courts. In short CFC is the most unnecessary, in-your-face, unconstitutional legislation passed in recent years. The fact that scotus said it was constitutional is irrelevant. Congress can still make it go away if it wanted to.
 
OK seansean, you've got the case laid out, now get your buddies in congress to do something about it. Remember, it ain't a crime until there's a conviction.
 
alas, us bleeding heart hollywood liberals have no juice in washington these days. :) But, we the people have all the juice in the world if we would all come together, stop fighting each other, focus on them and make them stop it.
 
Investigating what two consenting adults do in the confines of an office is infantile and more than a little perverted. You can hate Clinton for a variety of reasons, but that doesn't change the fact that only a pervert would be interested in his sex life.
 
You missed the point. Nobody in any position to do anything did care about his sex life. It was a means to an end. Nothing more.
 
Its really pointless to even talk about impeaching Bush. His party has majority control of both the House and Senate.

If Democrats had controlled the House and Senate, Clinton would have never been impeached, either.
 
Its really pointless to even talk about impeaching Bush. His party has majority control of both the House and Senate.

If Democrats had controlled the House and Senate, Clinton would have never been impeached, either.

I voted for Bush happily in 2000, and grudgingly in 2004. I just can't wait til he leaves office and we get something else for a while.
 
[Quote/]Investigating what two consenting adults do in the confines of an office is infantile and more than a little perverted. You can hate Clinton for a variety of reasons, but that doesn't change the fact that only a pervert would be interested in his sex life.
Most of you guys seem to know it all, so I would assume you realize that the Clinton investigation was about him tampering with witnesses (feeding them testimony), and possible sexual harassment/assault. It led to Monica Lewinsky. They were trying to show a pattern of sexual deviance.

They didn't just show up and decide to ask him about the blue dress with the stain on it, and how he liked his cigars. ;)
 
Clinton Is A Liar

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2005/06/10/downing_street_memo/index_np.html

"The last laugh
History will hold Bush and Blair accountable for their lies in the run-up to the Iraq war, even if the D.C. press corps just finds them funny.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Joe Conason

June 10, 2005 | On Tuesday, more than a month after the "Downing Street memo" first appeared on Britain's front pages, a Reuters correspondent asked George W. Bush and Tony Blair to explain the secret document that says the Bush administration had decided by July 2002 to invade Iraq -- and that the intelligence on Saddam Hussein's arsenal was then being "fixed" to bolster an otherwise exceedingly "thin" justification for war.

While the president and the prime minister airily attempted to dismiss the explosive memo -- just as many mainstream and conservative journalists in the United States did at first -- they have a lot more explaining to do. History will hold them accountable even if the press does not. For unlike previous indications of Bush's duplicity in promoting the war, this document provides historical evidence of a kind that usually remains hidden in a vault for years or even decades.

The Downing Street memo meets a higher standard of proof than gossip from one of Bob Woodward's unnamed sources or the memoirs of a disgruntled former official like Paul O'Neill. It is the official classified record of a crucial meeting of the British government's security cabinet on July 23, 2002 -- including the prime minister, the attorney general, the foreign secretary, the defense secretary and the chief of MI6, the Secret Intelligence Service. It details their worried discussion of their American ally's premature and absolute determination to wage a war that the president publicly claimed he hoped to avoid, and of the difficulty they would have in justifying that war.

Stodgy and fearful, the Washington press corps seemed unable to process this revelatory document, concocting various excuses to ignore it or relegate it to the back pages. Until Tuesday, it seemed likely to fade into the archives, despite the best efforts of dissident politicians and bloggers.

So the president may have been surprised when Steve Holland of Reuters asked this question: "On Iraq, the so-called Downing Street memo from July 2002 says intelligence and facts were being 'fixed around' the policy of removing Saddam through military action. Is this an accurate reflection of what happened? Could both of you respond?"

Like the eager poodle that will be his permanent caricature, Blair leaped to answer first. His response is worth parsing carefully, especially because neither he nor Bush took any follow-up questions on the subject.

"Well, I can respond to that very easily," Blair said. "No, the facts were not being fixed in any shape or form at all."

He didn't deny the authenticity of the memo, nor did he try to claim that the obvious meaning of the phrase "fixed around" is different in London than in Washington. He also didn't try to explain why the memo so clearly quoted Sir Richard Dearlove, head of the British Secret Intelligence Service, making comments precisely to that effect. And he didn't explain why, if the memo was wrong, neither he nor anyone on his staff corrected its contents when it was circulated to all those present after the meeting.

Did Blair mean to suggest that Dearlove -- identified in the memo only by his traditional codename "C" -- had reported inaccurately on what he had learned from his CIA counterparts in Washington? If so, how would Blair know that? Or did Blair mean to imply that Matthew Rycroft -- his foreign policy aide who took the meeting notes and later wrote the memo -- misquoted Dearlove?

Blair moved on swiftly without further clarification, as if he and his government bore no responsibility for the memo's contents -- and he was lucky that nobody asked what he thought he was talking about.

"And let me remind you that that memorandum was written before we then went to the United Nations," he continued blithely. "Now, no one knows more intimately the discussions that we were conducting as two countries at the time than me. And the fact is, we decided to go to the United Nations and went through that process, which resulted in the November 2002 United Nations resolution to give a final chance to Saddam Hussein to comply with international law. He didn't do so. And that was the reason why we had to take military action."

The credibility of Blair's remarks can be judged only in context of the Downing Street memo and other documents leaked in Britain, all of which show that "going to the U.N." was merely a pretext for military action -- which he had committed his country to support months earlier.

Yes, the Downing Street memo was written before the United States and the United Kingdom brought Iraq before the U.N. Security Council. But as Blair well knows, the decision to return to the United Nations had nothing to do with Bush's ultimate goal. The question debated among his advisors and with the British was what route they would take to get to Baghdad -- and how to manage world opinion along the way.

On May 1, the Sunday Times of London also published another classified British government document, titled "Iraq: Conditions for Military Action" and dated July 19, 2002 -- four days before the Blair security cabinet met at Downing Street. Circulated to the officials at that meeting, the memo emphasized the commitment Blair had already made when he visited Texas several months earlier:

"When the prime minister discussed Iraq with President Bush at Crawford [Texas] in April, he said that the UK would support military action to bring about regime change." The memo noted that the United States should meet "certain conditions" and that both governments would have to "shape public opinion" to make war politically feasible.

At the time, like his friend Bush, Blair was telling his public and elected officials that he had made no decision to invade Iraq. But still another memo shows that his denials were misleading. In a classified report, Sir David Manning, the prime minister's foreign policy advisor, informed Blair about his March 14, 2002, meeting with then-National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice. "I said that you would not budge in your support for regime change, but you had to manage a press, a parliament, and a public opinion."

Or as Christopher Meyer, then the British ambassador to the United States, put it in still another leaked memo, dated March 18, 2003, about a conversation with Rice: "We backed regime change, but the plan had to be clever and failure was not an option."

In other words, as the Downing Street memo also indicates, the United Nations was nothing more than the stage set for a "clever" plan to manage public opinion. At the July 23 meeting, Foreign Minister Jack Straw admitted that the case against Iraq "was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbors, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea, or Iran." Straw's solution was to "work up an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the U.N. weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force."

According to the memo, Blair hoped that Saddam would cooperate -- by refusing to cooperate with the U.N. "The prime minister said that it would make a big difference politically and legally if Saddam refused to allow in the U.N. inspectors ... Regime change and WMD were linked in the sense that it was the regime that was producing the WMD ... If the political context were right, people would support regime change."

There was no discussion at the July 23 meeting, or in any of the leaked documents, about how to avoid war -- although Blair continues to insist that was his fondest wish.

Both Blair and Bush have frequently asserted, as the prime minister again repeated at the White House this week, that in fact Saddam didn't comply with the U.N. resolutions. Indeed, Blair rather strangely behaves as if the world hadn't seen the inspectors return to Iraq during the weeks before the invasion; as if the world hadn't watched the destruction of illegal missile parts found by the inspectors; as if the world hadn't learned, after exhaustive post-invasion searching, that there were simply no weapons of mass destruction hidden in Iraq.

Blair apparently thinks that everyone should simply believe him -- regardless of the Downing Street memo and other inconvenient realities -- because nobody knows what went on between him and Bush "more intimately ... than me." As Groucho Marx would have said, should we believe Tony or our own lying eyes?

As for Bush, he too tried to wave off the memo by asserting his own version of what happened three years ago -- and by insinuating that the American press somehow deserved blame for a story that it had scarcely dared to report.

"Well, I -- you know, I read kind of the characterizations of the memo, particularly when they dropped it out in the middle of [Blair's] race," he said. "I'm not sure who 'they dropped it out' is, but -- I'm not suggesting that you all dropped it out there." At that the reporters in the White House press room laughed along with Bush. That was some funny joke, especially coming from a president whose administration has so successfully intimidated the national media.

"And somebody said, well, you know, we had made up our mind to go to use military force to deal with Saddam. There's nothing farther from the truth," he continued. "My conversation with the prime minister was, how could we do this peacefully? what could we do?"

Nobody asked Bush to explain why the memo quotes Foreign Secretary Straw telling Blair and his other colleagues that according to his contacts in Washington, "it seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided." And incidentally, nowhere in the memo does Blair contradict any of his ministers' damning assertions about his friend Bush.

There remain many more questions to be asked and answered, now that the forbidden issue has been broached in our own press. Will the American media rectify its original error and pursue the story of the Downing Street documents? Or will it again drop the subject, even though both the president and the prime minister have implicitly confirmed the memo's authenticity?

Past performance on this and other stories displeasing to the White House suggests that their unconvincing and incomplete answers will be allowed to stand, even though the president's popularity and public support for the war have reached new lows.

For anyone who recalls the blazing indignation of the Washington press corps and the nation's talking heads after Bill Clinton lied about his sad philandering, the passive media response to this president's fatal dishonesty is astonishing.

He brandishes the "smoking memo" in their faces and laughs -- and they laugh with him."
 
Joe Conason is the very definition of a moonbat.

It's been show many, MANY times here on this board and elsewhere, that most world leaders, and almost all democratic leaders, also thought Saddam had current stockpiles of weapons. How can they impeach Bush for thinking the same way Bill and Hillary Clinton, Kerry, Kennedy, and the rest of them did?
 
Boarder issues

Hey, I'd like to see the southern border a bit tighter. But let's be realistic, it isn't going to happen. It's not Bush's fault. The only way to stop it is either punishing the companies that hire undocumented workers, or to place an Boarder Patrol agent every 50 feet. That's possible, but do we want to pay the taxes for that?

Put the military there. There's two problems, first let a soldier shoot somebody while defending himself or herself. The press will have a field day. Secomd, look at the problems with retention, the military has been issuing Stop Loss orders for over a year. What's that caused, a fall off in recruitment. When soldiers sign-up for 2 years and they expect to be released, and it doesn't happen what do you expect?

I'm open to suggestions, but they have to be politically feasible.
 
Joe Conason is the very definition of a moonbat.

Karl Rove Rules of Engagement: Rule #1. When the bleak facts are being exposed, immediately attack the source. Make sure to use denigrating terms like, "wacko", "moonbat", or "looney".

I've recently noticed this being used more and more as a defense mechanism by the Bushborg. Rather than, "No you're wrong.", It's, "No, you're a wacko."
 
dpesec,

They built a fence in Israel and that seems to work quite well. Border Patrol agents would not have to be spread every 50 feet. And all judges would have to do is actually jail illegals or have them deported.

The Minutemen did a wonderful job. No more excuses just because Bush is in office.
 
HiFi

I forgot about that, but it'll still cost a fortune in initial costs and up keep.
Minutemen, that's not a government project, but I'd love to see more citizens getting involved in "doing the right thing."

Oh, yes another thing to consider, no matter who's president whatever he or she proposes, it still has to pass congress with either the enabling legislation or funding. We all know how much backbone those folks have for taking a stand.
 
I saw an estimate that said that building a high-tech fence between the US and Mexico would cost about 10% of only one year's defense budget. Now I am sure a government project of that magnitude will run over budget, but even if it ends up being 20 or 30% of one year's defense budget to build, I think its worth it.

Money is the only reason Bush doesn't close the border, plain and simple. Bush is putting our nation at risk by not closing the border. If the next 9-11 style attack can be traced back to terrorists who entered through the southern border, then Bush's legacy will be totally destroyed, and he will go down in history as a total bufoon. Its getting harder and harder for the Bush lap dogs to hide this fact.
 
Now I am sure a government project of that magnitude will run over budget, but even if it ends up being 20 or 30% of one year's defense budget to build, I think its worth it.

So what about Canada? If it's the terrorist threat we are worried about we have an even bigger threat to the north. Then what happens when the military is no longer able to take the fight to the terrorists because of a 30% shortfall in defense funding? If that 30% isn't from the defense budget where from then? and what happens then to all the southern California and Texas farmers etc that rely on the illegal migratory work force that is now cut off (an ugly truth but truth no less). Easiest solution is pass the defense burden onto Mexico, deduct $ from the support funding we send to Mexico to aid border control and add taxes to NAFTA (if it's still functional) per illegal immigrant we detain and ohh by the way also deduct all expenses associated with repatriating said illegals. Bet you would get the entire Mexican army along the border preventing illegal crossing after that. Nothing like hitting them in the wallet to provoke action. just my opinion, probably full of holes, I agree something needs to be done, but not sure making taxpayers or the defense budget assume the burden is the right answer.
 
They built a fence in Israel and that seems to work quite well. Border Patrol agents would not have to be spread every 50 feet. And all judges would have to do is actually jail illegals or have them deported.

So how does our .gov go about fencing land they don't own?
 
The construction costs are 10% of ONE year's defense budget; maintenance would be considerably less.

As far as the farmers in TX or CA are concerned, they are in violation of the law, and they know it. They are making money at the expense of the rest of the country. Cheap squash just isn't worth the price we are paying in illegals.

So how does our .gov go about fencing land they don't own?

Imminent domain.
 
You don't necessarily need to fence the entire border in one year. Make it a five year plan. Each year, you build 1/5 of the wall, conveniently over the highest illegal traffic zones. I'd build it tough and cheap to repair. Better than chainlink, probably lots of concrete.

Heck, landmines might be cheap enough. :D

Fence, landmines, Fence. It'd work, wouldn't it?

Oh, and use all the cheap labor available from the new, easily available, legal immigration.
 
A continuous fence is not necessary. It may be advisable to have one in certain high traffic locations but by and large a fence is not necessary.

What is necessary, but not sufficient, is workplace enforcement with a series of high profile employer busts followed with public perpwalks and trials. A wide variety of prosecutions of business types including a range of businesses will go a long way toward cutting down on the attractiveness of criminal immigration. I would go further and insist on bust of certain government officials that refuse to enforce law. Don't like the law? Get it changed but don't think it is acceptable to just ignore it. After all, little people like me may just get it in my tiny mind to just not obey the law, like oh say tax law. If government can ignore law it finds inconvenient then I can ignore law that I find inconvenient. :D

I will guarantee you goobermint does not want the little people getting it in their minds that they can simply ignore laws they find unacceptable. :scrutiny:
 
Waitone,

He capped off this sterling performance by hoping the supreme court would rule it unconstitutional and do what he failed to do or had the courage to do

No, what really impressed me came even later, when he expressed disappointment that the legislation didn't regulate the 527 organizations, as he'd thought it would when he signed it. Turns out he was just scaming everybody when he claimed to be opposed to it.
 
Brett,

<doffs his hat> <bows at the waist> <holding hat in hand apologizes for being so incorrect>

Yep! That was the topper and I forgot it. That little episode showed the entire CFC episode was political theatre. Both parties wanted it. I would love to return to the days of tar pots and feather pillows.
 
13 June 2002

PRESIDENT BUSH:

Yes, I told the Prime Minister there are no war plans on my desk. I haven't changed my opinion about Saddam Hussein, however. He is -- this is a person who gassed his own people, and possesses weapons of mass destruction. And so as I told the American people, and I told John, we'll use all tools at our disposal to deal with him. And, of course, before there is any action -- military action, I would closely consult with our close friend. There are no plans on my desk right now.

http://www.pm.gov.au/news/interviews/2002/interview1704.htm




See, Bush didn't have any war plans. So the British memos that were released are simply innacurate when they say things like :

C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1593607,00.html


The President was clear. He did not have any war plans in June of 2002. So for the British to assume that he did in July of 2002 is irresponsible and fraudulent.

I for one prefer to believe a straight talkn' Texan over any limp wristed tea totalers from England.
 
how about we just dig little hole and put sharpened sticks on the bottom! Then we can all blame trappers! :D



I for one prefer to believe a straight talkn' Texan over any limp wristed tea totalers from England.

hahaha! Thats one made me laugh! Not very PC though ;)
 
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