Bush Impeachment?

[JitsuGuy]

It is debatable whether Bu$h would bold-face lie about if he really knew the situation and is blaming this big cluster @#$@ on the intelligence agencies. At least that's the point I believe Lone_Gunman was making... After all the other crap Bu$h has pulled, I would not be shocked to find that out and actually believe that is the case.

The love of money is the root of all evil. This applies to America and its leaders as well.

How people can continue to support such an administration who's had so many screw ups, costing peoples lives... I just don't get it. We were supposedly attacked by "terrorists" which we didn't have the knowledge to stop... Then we wage a war based on "facts" Bu$h admin and himself would constantly throw in our faces. Yet it appears these weren't even even close to being accurate... And people still support this guy. On top of that, people don't even get the slightest big suspicious. America is asleep and our trust in government and our current system is ultimately going to cost us our country if it hasn't already.

J

 

[R.H. Lee]

Some of you crack me up. One minute George Bush is an incompetent bumbling nincompoop, and the next he's an evil genius who is able to contrive intricate plots that fool everybody. Which is it?

 

[JohnBT]

Whatever fits their needs of the moment.

JT

 

[shermacman]

How people can continue to support such an administration who's had so many screw ups, costing peoples lives... I just don't get it.

Must suck to be smarter than the president, smarter than the majority of people who voted for the president, and still 'not get it'.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Must suck to be smarter than the president, smarter than the majority of people who voted for the president, and still 'not get it'.

When I was an undergraduate I worked with a psychology professor conducting a study on the MMPI (Minnesota Multi-Phasic Personality Inventory, the primary tool shrinks use to decide whether or not a person is nuts). Part of the study involved administering IQ tests, which was my job. I administered hundreds of IQ tests, and the results were sobering. To put it in layman's terms, most people really are dumber than a box of hammers.

I don't know if Bush is an idiot manchild or not. My guess is that he's well above average, though his lack of verbal skills indicates he's no genius. Still, being above average means he's smarter than most of the people who voted for him.

On the other hand, "average" is so incredibly stupid that I have no doubt that "majority of people who voted for the president... still 'not get it'." I'd be surprised if they got anything more complicated than a football game.

 

[RealGun]

Part of the study involved administering IQ tests, which was my job. I administered hundreds of IQ tests, and the results were sobering. To put it in layman's terms, most people really are dumber than a box of hammers. - Lobotomy Boy

Were you only testing those suspected of being "nuts"?

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Nope. We tested hundreds and hundreds of students from a random cross section of the student body.

What we found was interesting. The point of the study was to verify the validity scales on the test. We had students take the test twice. If they had elevation on the original test and their validity scores were within spec, we'd have them retake the test and fake sane. If they tested normal and their numbers were within spec, we'd have them fake crazy.

There were two striking findings. The first was that of all the people who had elevation (ie. showed evidence of one of a number of personality disorders), only 8 were able to fake sane without getting caught on the validity scales. Of those 8, seven were adult children of alcoholics.

The other interesting finding was that people with higher than average IQs were much more likely to have elevation on one of the scales. Conversely, those with lower IQs and no elevation were generally the most boring, lifeless, dull-witted people I knew. I started thinking of them as "dullards," a phrase my wife and I still use to describe people who bore us to tears. They were nice people, but absolutely lacking any spark of life whatsoever. I came to the conclusion that to lack a personality disorder was to lack a personality. This freaked me out so much I changed my major to English and graduated a year early because it was so easy compared to psychology.

 

[Rebar]

On the other hand, "average" is so incredibly stupid that I have no doubt that "majority of people who voted for the president... still 'not get it'."

Maybe it's you who does "not get it".

And by the way, "stupid" Bush and "smart" Kerry got the same GPA in college.

 

[RealGun]

Nope. We tested hundreds and hundreds of students from a random cross section of the student body. - Lobotomy Boy

It sounds to me like you were testing for critical thinking more than IQ or sanity. To characterize a large part of the electorate, I would say they are not critical thinkers and go with any impression gained from media exposure of candidates. How much they know about government and politics would be a good test, I think. "The informed voter" should be what we would hope to see and what we try to be, right?

 

[shermacman]

LobotomyBoy, please let me start by saying that I enjoy your posts, you are well reasoned and bright even if I don't agree with many of your opinions. That having been said, go back and read your post about your psych testing days. It strikes me as the absolute epitome of...well I can't say it because it is just too provocative.

But suffice to say that those of us "average" people who voted for George W. Bush keep beating those, like Jean Fraud Kerry, who are so much smarter, so much more nuanced, so much more European, so much more intellectual.

And we do it even though we are dullards with even less personality than al-Gore and Jean Fraud.

 

[Art Eatman]

Just a data point in a thread which has become pointless: For college curricula of the 1940s/1950s, it was alleged that one needed an IQ of roughly 105 to be able to graduate. For PhDs, that rose to 125.

Another FWIW is that successful NFL quarterbacks tend toward the 125 level...

, Art

 

[JohnBT]

"the MMPI (Minnesota Multi-Phasic Personality Inventory, the primary tool shrinks use to decide whether or not a person is nuts)"

That's not true for the majority of people seen for mental health services because they are seen in mental health clinics. It takes 60 to 90 minutes to complete the nearly 600 true-false questions on the MMPI and then there's the whole interpretation to do. Ha. Two hours for one patient?

And don't get me started on the validity of IQ tests as a stand-alone instrument. Even the good ones have severe limitations. And then there are the 'smart' high-IQ people with bad judgment versus the 'dumb' people with good judgment. Which is more important, mental quickness backed by a good fund of knowledge or slow, plodding correct decisions?

I test and counsel people for a living. Been in the business 30+ years not counting college and grad school.

John

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

You're right--what we have now is much more of a fast-food approach to mental health, and the MMPI doesn't neatly fit into that. The whole bean-counter approach to mental health care was another reason I switched to English those 20-or-so years ago.

You are talking about emotional IQ versus intellectual IQ, and you're absolutely correct. A lot of people with extremely high IQs don't have the sense God gave a goose. Take my wife, for example.

But I stand by my totally subjective observation that most people are as dumb as a box of hammers, whether you measure that by lack of intelligence or lack of common sense. Ever try to have a conversation with some of the half wits you meet in the course of a day? I've always thought the word "befuddled" was strange, since to be "befuddled" means someone is "fuddled," and I'm not sure how to define "fuddled." But however you define "fuddled," it seems like more people be it than not be it. My anecdotal experience giving IQ tests backed up that subjective observation.