Discussion in 'Long Gun Accessories and Optics' started by LiveLife, Dec 6, 2018.
I believe glass quality is more important than objective size for low light clarity.
From my low light testing - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...mendation-for-308.842282/page-2#post-10944780
"6/10/18 UPDATE: Received the Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40mm scopes and compared to Leupold American Marksman 3-9x40mm and Bushnell Banner Dusk & Dawn AO 6-18x50mm tonight.
Between 9 PM and 9:30 PM PST, I focused on a car grill emblem parked 100 yards away and nearby objects under canopy of 100+ feet of redwood and pine trees without any other ambient lighting.
Even with diminishing ambient lighting that made it difficult to see the grill emblem with my eyes, I was able to clearly see the emblem with Leupold. (FYI, for my eyes, Leupold Marksman 3-9x40mm provides brighter view than my old Bushnell Banner 3-9x40mm)
But the surprise came when I viewed the Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40mm. Initially, Bushnell Trophy view seemed slightly brighter than Marksman. I went back and forth with Leupold Marksman and while Leupold Marksman provided bright sharp images of grill emblem and car body parts, Bushnell Trophy seemed to register sharper initial image that I did not need to adjust to. I adjusted the focus of both scopes and my impression is Bushnell Trophy is on par with Leupold Marksman or has slight edge.
Then I viewed the Bushnell Banner Dusk & Dawn AO 6-18x50mm with zoom set at 9x and AO set at 100 yards. By now, it was close to 9:30 PM with ambient light dimming but the view was brighter than Leupold Marksman and Bushnell Trophy viewed earlier with more ambient lighting. I was able to clearly see the grill emblem and with increased zoom to 18x, see a lot more clearly."
A bigger objective lets you use higher magnification in low light (Think exit pupil). Glass/coatings trump objective size for the most part.
That said, I have some quality binocs with tiny objective lenses and it does very poorly in low light.
10X and a 20MM objective equals a 2.0 exit pupil. Not gonna see much in low light.
You need both.
Good glass and at least a big enough objective to get a 5.0 exit pupil at the lowest power setting. Younger people can take advantage of up to 7.0 exit pupil.
Of those posters on this board that make the case often to buy the absolute best you can possibly wangle, which I do, for the money, I say, the Trophy is a good scope. For the plinker or guy like me that gets out to hunt once or twice a decade and doesn't really care if he bags something or not, this scope is fine. I have much worse optics than the Trophy. For $60 get you one, you never know when you might need a scope and the stores are closed or payday is 10 days off.
And I would say the sample isn’t big enough.
Curiosity had me break out my 2-7x33 FX-Freedom, and my 2-7x32 Korean made Simmons Prohunter.
Pictures from about 10am, overcast but not dark.
I'll also include my Legend UltraHD 4.5-14x44 (since the 3-9x50 came up) but it's obviously got a much larger objective.
Bah they didn't upload as nice as I'd hoped. I can still see the slight difference between the Freedom and Prohunter tho. I'll try this evening and see how those pictures come out.
I just increased my sample size by ordering 3 Minox ZV3 3-9x40mm to add to several Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40mm (I have 4), Leupold American Marksman 3-9x40mm and Bushnell Banner Dusk & Dawn 6-18x50mm AO.
So why the fuss over buying "economy" scopes when I could afford to buy whatever I want?
Maybe I am thinking about new younger shooters who may not have much money like how I was when I was a starving college student who still wanted to enjoy shooting and reloading. While new reloaders admire my Dillon 650 with case feeder, I have taught and helped set up countless Lee Pro 1000 to produce match grade ammunition (OAL variance to .001", powder charge drops with less than .1 gr variance, primer seating depth .004" below flush, minimal/no bullet setback, etc.). While I have 2 Ohaus 10-10 beam scales, I verify the accuracy and repeatability of sub $20 digital scales down to .04 - .06 gr with Ohaus ASTM Class 6 check weights. While I had Starrett micrometers and calipers (I collect USA made tools as hobby like C-H, Dillon, Lee, Ohaus, etc.), I verify the accuracy of $10 Harbor Freight digital calipers and $27 Frankford Arsenal dial calipers with +/- pin gages to .001" (All linked threads with measurable and repeatable data with often myth busting conclusion) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-10966692
And now for 50-100 yard plinking and target shooting, sub $100 and even sub $60 scopes will be tested so those with less discretionary funds could also enjoy our hobby and passion of shooting.
Surely, the $1000 Dillon 650 must be better than $150 Lee Pro 1000? Right? Can Dillon 650 produce ammunition with .001" OAL variance, meter Sport Pistol with less than .05 gr variance and meter Bullseye down to 1.5 gr with less than .1 gr variance consistently? https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/working-diy-micro-auto-disk.741988/#post-9318360
And $100-$150+ scales must be better than $17-$20 "cheap" digital scales? Right? But as long as they consistently verify check weights down to .1 gr, they SHOULD be good enough for reloading ... (BTW, I have check weights down to .015 gr).
And now we have sub $100 scopes. And will even sub $60 Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40mm be good enough for 50-100 yard plinking and target shooting? I could take pictures through the scopes of .223 holes on paper and see which scope produces sharpest and brightest images (Ah, another myth busting thread in the making).
As I stated in post #20, I work and focus on THR primarily to benefit those new to shooting and reloading, even those with least amount of financial resources, so I can continue to propagate the PIF notion of "teaching someone how to fish". Can you always spend more money on shooting gear? Sure. But what if you don't have that extra money? Should that keep you from enjoying this wonderful hobby and passion? I do not think so - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...m-multi-x-reticle-59-99.844541/#post-10990233
So I will continue my quest to keep seeking out and testing lower priced shooting and reloading gear to benefit everyone, even those whose monthly income is less.
Well, I use a Lee Turret press. I don’t have a problem with people buying and using cheap scopes. But I’m not going to use them because I see so much better through scopes costing more. Burris Fullfield II is the most inexpensive scope that works for my eyes. I’m also almost 60 and have developed severe astigmatism over the past ten years. If I were 40 years younger I bet a cheap scope would work much better for me. So since this is a place to express your opinion you and I can express ours, be at opposite ends of the spectrum and neither of us be wrong.
Just between us girls, if everyone thought the same then forums would be no fun and I’d go back to making harassing phone calls to LoonWulf for fun.
Definitely appreciate your comments on Minox ZV3 3-9x40mm which drove me to check out and find the great price of $109 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...09-98-with-free-shipping-til-12-12-18.844746/
I have read several reviews and threads on different forums and opinions/comments are very positive and look forward to comparison testing Minox along with Bushnell Banner/Trophy and Leupold scopes (I will let the "objective" pictures taken of target through the scopes be the judge instead of my "subjective" opinions).
Well, I am 52 and already struggled through bifocals, trifocals and now wearing progressives. So far so good with seeing sights of pistols and carbines along with targets at distance (Tell your eye doctor you need to see the sights ) but if I struggle anymore, I may get eye surgery like my sister and have perfect vision.
Thank you for supporting one of last remaining domestic companies that refused to go global and still manufactures in the USA.
That should be a great buy for the money. Being in Alabama I can't order from Natchez, but they constantly have good deals on scopes.
I guess we all use what works well for us. My hunting rifles wear Swarovski, My long range precision rifles, Night Force, and my Ars wear Trijicon ACOG.
Over the last 60 years, I've consigned about a dozen low cost scopes to the dumpster, so I'm extremely "gun shy" about ever spending money on another one.
Natchez won’t sell to people in Alabama?
Awww i miss those!
Nope, it's a deal with their distributors. When they started a web business they made a deal not to compete with the people here they already supplied.
While that's nice of them....kinda annoying at the same time.
That’s a new one for me.
From another site.
Though an obvious inconvenience to people in Alabama you’ve got to admire their integrity.
Tried to order from academy and farm/fleet (both had price of 59.00) and both willl not ship to .CA? Stated due to prop 65 disclosures.
Yea, I'm not mad at them. Disappointed sometimes when they have a great deal.
Well, I decided my 16" MSR didn't have enough magnification with the 1x4 I had on it, so I've ordered the 3x9 Trophy.
Of course, I should have custom-ordered a Schmidt and Bender, or had a fourth generation member of the Leupold family hand-assemble an optic for me, I suspect I'll get by for my recreational shooting.
Or Tennessee. Something about they supply the shops in a few states so they made a business move to not sell online to help the shops they sell to. I placed a father’s day order that was being shipped into KY and they refused it because the credit card had a TN billing address. Messed me up and made me late on a gift because they took forever before cancelling the order.
Were you trying to sell him blizzard and ice storm insurance too? I thought I had him a time or two.
It was an autographed King Kamehameha I commemorative trade musket.
Trulock and Carlson’s do something similar in that they sell direct to customers but at a higher price than their retailers do. I like that.
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