Buyin a Saiga rifle. which one??

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jimbombo

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First off hello, i have been lurking some time now and really like this forum! This is my first post and will appreciate any of you guys that have Saiga's, Ak's or opinions on the subject. I am purchasing my first saiga rifle(I have heard only good things about these rifles considering they can be had new for $300.00!!)

Before I start are there any drawback to this rifle or is this one I will have for a long time?

First question which caliber .223 or 7.62x39? .223 is more readily avaliable in my area, but if i decide i want to take this rifle deer or boar hunting is .223 going to bee able to put these animals down. Will the 7.62x39 well be drying up any time soon?

The factory that produces these rifles in Russia has been producing them with the 7.62 barrels for a long time i am guessing does this make the .223 barrel andy less quality? Does the .223 barrel have the same problem that the ak74 barrels have been known to have??

Thanks

Jim
 
For hunting deer and boar you would certainly be better served with the 7.62 but to be honest accuracy may be too limited for shooting at range. 7.62 is in no danger of drying up.

What AK74 barrel issues are you reffering to? If i'm not mistaken there were some Century guns with american barrels that were keyholing.

The saiga barrels are essentially the same as those used on the Russian military AK74 rifles. Their .223 barrels should be to the same level of quality. My Arsenal 74, built from a Saiga, shoots sub 2" groups with surplus 5.45 all day long.
 
I don't hunt boars with 223 or x39, but there are folks who do with both calibers good success. The 223 is 1:9 and will stabilize heavier hunting bullets (70-77 grainers) just fine.

Don't know what problems you are referring to with Saiga 5.45x39. The Saigas are very accurate. Mine shoots mil surp into 1.5 inch groups at 100yds.

The CAI-built ones (and some Lancaster '74s) were built with 556 barrel blanks and bullets were keyholing at short distance, but those have been recalled and I assume customers were taken care of.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. Have you looked at the ones in 308?

Good luck.

M
 
Well both calibers are widely used, and the probability of either calibers drying up is extremely highly unlikely. They both will shoot ~2moa (some better with a good scope and rest).

If I was choosing between the two, I would take the .223, convert it, and add the mag well so that it can take AR-15 magazines. .223 is as cheap as 7.62x39, and it would share ammo and magazines with my AR.

If I was buying with the intention of hunting, I would go 7.62x39. With some careful drilling work, they can be set up to take AK magazines.

Remember though, my opinion is biased because I already have a .308 (the dream Saiga :D) I don't really need another .30 caliber so I would get something cheap to shoot that shares ammo with something I already have.


It pretty much comes to this:
If you want to do some work to the gun, get the .223. It will be better in the long run with the AR mag well etc.
If you just want to pick up the gun and go shoot, take the 7.62x39. It's better out of the box. These can be rewarding too if you convert them, however if you plan on keeping the gun stock magazines are a lot cheaper for this one than the special .223 magazines.
 
Thanks Ranger this leads to my next question which i think you answered. If I plan on doing my own conversion in the future will it be just as easy and are the parts as readily avaliable if I get it in .223 vs 7.62. No kidding I can use the AR mags on it if I do the conversion-is it just a matter of widening the mag well?

Thanks Guys
This forum is awesome!
 
Make sure to read up on the 922r requirements for conversions. It's not hard, but you don't want to make a mistake.
 
If I plan on doing my own conversion in the future will it be just as easy and are the parts as readily avaliable if I get it in .223 vs 7.62
Click to expand...
.

AK magazines in .223 are much harder to come by than 7.62. I've heard some use 5.45 mags to run .223 but others have said doing so is not reliable. Aside from mags and flash hiders/brakes i cant think of any parts that don't work on either a 7.62 russian or .223.


No kidding I can use the AR mags on it if I do the conversion-is it just a matter of widening the mag well?
Click to expand...

No, an AK magazine secures in a completely different manner than an AR magazine. To run an AR magazine in an AK you will need a special adapter that requires some machining although some have pulled it off with a dremel. I've heard mixed reviews for reliability. I read Krebs say that AKs also tend to tear up AR magainze followers due to AK bolt shape and lack of last round hold open. Most internet accounts of the adapters don't report this but it may be a matter of round count.
 
The .223, 7.62x39, and 5.45x39 rifle all share everything except for magazines. A basic conversion is extremely easy, just be careful and take your time. Both rifles are identical to convert, and this website sells basic conversion "kits."

By "basic" I mean moving the trigger group forward and putting a normal stock/pistol grip on. There are a gazillion youtube videos and other articles on this, so I won't go into that here.



The more complex conversions are a little more difficult, but can be done with normal tools.

Converting the 7.62 gun to take AK mags is easy, you just need a "bullet guide" kit. If you go this route, I definitely recommend a drill press to drill the hole for a bullet guide as it needs to be a bit more on the precise side of things.

Doing the conversion for the .223 model to take AR mags can be a lot more on the difficult side. There are some "drop in" mag wells out there and I would recommend them because they are easy to install and if you ever want to use normal Saiga mags, you can just take the mag well out. The "non drop in" mag wells require a milling machine, so you would probably need a gunsmith to do that job.

Hope this helps! :)
 
5.45 might be the way to go. Its cheaper then both of those rounds, is similar to the 5.56 in terms of recoil, and has alot more aftermarket mags available then the 223
 
Let me start over, (i probably should have started the post like this)
It sounds like my only concern over the barrel quality of the smaller calibers is no longer an issue b/c of keyholing?

These are MY priorities-based on these which caliber?
1. avaliabilty and price of ammo locally..
2. accuracy
3. avaliabilty of STOCK magazines
4. Being able to use the rifle to hunt varmint to medium size game(is this too broad)
5. Lastly possibly doing a conversion in the future, not right off the bat.

Thanks
 
jimbombo said:
Let me start over, (i probably should have started the post like this)
It sounds like my only concern over the barrel quality of the smaller calibers is no longer an issue b/c of keyholing?

These are MY priorities-based on these which caliber?
1. avaliabilty and price of ammo locally..
2. accuracy
3. avaliabilty of STOCK magazines
4. Being able to use the rifle to hunt varmint to medium size game(is this too broad)
5. Lastly possibly doing a conversion in the future, not right off the bat.

Thanks
Click to expand...

1) .223 wins there hands down. It is the most popular caliber in the US followed by 7.62x39. You will not find 5.45 in most local gun stores.
2) They all will give you ~2MOA with irons. Some do better with a decent scope.
3) 7.62x39 wins there, but there certainly are a lot of .223 and 5.45 magazines on Gunbroker. Not something I would be worried about.
4) All three will do that just fine with the right bullet. 5.45 is a little harder to find good hunting ammo for though. Nothing beats a .223 for Coyote size game though, however 7.62 will be very nice on deer/hogs.
5) All three are identical to do a basic conversion. The only difference between the three is converting to take AK/AR magazines. There, it is easier to convert the 7.62 or 5.45 because all you have to do is install a bullet guide. The .223 mag conversion is a little more difficult but rewarding if you plan on getting an AR down the road.


Considering all of your points, the 7.62x39 would be the winner. Easy to convert, plentiful ammo, good for anything from dogs to deer to hogs, and accurate enough. Your choice!

Edit: And yea, your barrel worries are like keyholing in these guns: non existent. :)
 
Like has been already said, 308 is the best all around Saiga. The 208 does need a conversion in it right off the bat to get rid of the horrible trigger setup. If you are choosing between the 223 and the 762x39 I would probably choose the 762 first. The conversion parts are not going anywhere any time soon. The 762 is just a bullet guide install and it will take the regular AK mags (far too many of them around to worry about availability). The 223 can be converted to take AR mags (lots of those mags around) though this requires a little bit of skill with tools and an hour or so of your time. I just finished my AR mag conversion on the 223 and it works great. I did the bullet guide install on the 762 39 some time ago and don't even know if I could find a saiga 762 39 mag in my safe very easily. The 545 can also have the AK style conversions done and is a blast to shoot. None of the indoor ranges will let me shoot bimetal bullets, so unless you only shoot outdoors that is a deal breaker. All the calibers will do any of the hunting you have listed.
Basically you just can't go wrong with any of the saiga rifles IMHO
 
Another vote for the .308. Powerful enough for anything in north america, accurate enough to hunt at any range one might be hunting at. Reliable enough for anything you'd want to do.
 
I'd give another vote for the 7.62x39, but I also agree that the conversion should be done immediately. The trigger system on these guns as stock is absolutely terrible.

I've converted a few and owned 2 myself. My next will likely be a .308
 
Tapco Galil .223 magazines work fine in the Saiga .223, they are not expensive or hard to find... I don't use them since I have a dozen Galil Orlites for my saiga 223... they were $11-12 ea from numrich
 
These are my two conversions, I have a Russian 6X POSP scope on the .223, the shotgun is 12 ga. A Russian made AK is a pleasure to shoot.

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