Buying .303 Brit and 7.62x54R dies...

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goon

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I am going to have the local shop that I work at order a set of .303 British and a set of 7.62x54 RCBS reloading dies for me. The 7.62 dies come with both a .311 and .308 expander but the .303 dies don't. I want to order an extra expander with them because I want to try .308 diameter bullets in my rifle. The bore is tight on a .308 bullet. I haven't had the bore on either slugged yet but I am still planning to try the .308 bullets I already have in both. It might work and it might not, but I want to try it.

Anyhow, RCBS makes at least two different .308 expanders according to their catalog. I called their customer service line today but they aren't back in until monday. Does anyone know which .308 expander I would need to try this with a .303 British?

Also, I am planning to go with neck sizing dies for the .303, but I am unsure whether to get full length or neck sizing dies for the 7.62x54. I am doing this because my .303 does blow the shoulder forward but the fired brass chambers just fine so neck sizing will work with it.
But I don't know about the Mosin Nagant. Can anyone advise me on the dies for it? It is an M-39 in case that matters, but I am planning to pick up a Russian one at some point too and maybe another M-39.
Thanks.
 
Never pull an expander ball through a case neck.
Click to expand...

How come?
I have been doing this with every round I load.
I'll have to find some way to not do this.
 
Take some new brass that has never been abused with the expander ball.
Load it and shoot it.
Now take the expander ball out of the sizer die.
Resize the brass with lube on the outside until the shoulder is pushed back .002" but springs back to the same headspace.
Now load the brass. [The neck should be big enough to seat a bullet. If not you may need to bell the brass or lapp the die neck]
Keep those loads separate and compare them to you regular handload bothwith a concentricity checker, AND with targets at the range.

This is basically all that an $80 concentricity checker will tell you, but it will shrink the groups by an inch.

It would help more, but the chamber staightens out bent ammo to within .004" of concentric, so there is only 1" improvement possible at 100 yards.
 
Might be workable. I load mostly boattail bullets so it might just work.
The only thing is that my only 308 (the only thing I really handload for anymore) is a FAL. It is accurate for its intended purpose but I am not a good enough shot with the iron sights to be able to notice an inch at 100 yards. I can't see that good.
But I do want to get another bolt action at some point. I will keep that in mind.
 
I put accuraizing a FAL right up there with some other bad long term relationships I have had, like hand painting a car.

Now I doing ok with bolt guns, Ruger #1s, and AR15s.
And lots of my bolt guns are lousy too, but they don't get dozens of trips to the range, like those FALs did.
 
Once again The Hogh Road proves itself the best.

For many years, everytime I suggest to someone that by loading rifle ammo just like handgun ammo and that just slightly flaring the case mouth will give you better accuracy, I have been told I was stupid or crazy or both.

I am really glad to see that someone else has discovered that it works.
 
Slug the barrel on your Mosin first, to be absolutely sure what caliber bullets to get. Midway has 7.62x54r dies for $19.95, and I plan on getting two sets sometime soon, one for me and my M38, and one for a buddy with an M44....
 
I already have about 400 or so .308 bullets. My FAL is my third .308 and I have accumulated about six kinds of bullets in various weights.
At worst, a .308 going down the barrel of my Enfield or Mosin Nagant won't give very good accuracy. If that is the case, I'll have to get some .311. I am really hoping that all my rifles will work with .308 bullets so I don't have to stock another size.
 
It does very well with .311" surplus, which is a .007" misfit!!
They'll get you every time...

I tried the "shot-out-bore-test" on my Mosin, my brother's 91/30, and my SMLE with a Speer 165gr BTSP. I don't know how scientific it is, but all the old timers I know used it to check and see if a rifle was shot out before buying it. They would basically just take a round of ammo and insert the bullet into the muzzle. If the riflings caught on the bullet before the mouth of the case hit the muzzle, the bore was still good enough to shoot accurately.
My dad used that test when he bought me my SMLE and the gun is deadly accurate. It will shoot winchester 150gr factory loads into nickel sized groups at 100 yards with just the open sights. I never shot it much because ammo is so expensive for it, but I can hardly wait to start handloading for it. I want to load up some 7.62x39mm equivalent rounds and shoot the heck out of it. :D
Have to make up for the years of not using it.

When I do this same test with a .308 bullet on these guns, a light pressure will leave faint rifling marks on the bullet. The bores on these rifles are tight. I don't go trying to ram the bullets in too hard or too far because I don't want to risk damaging the bore. I am probably being paranoid because copper jacket is softer than steel, but still...
Anyhow, this is what makes me think that my .308 bullets will work with these guns. Having them slugged would be a good idea but I don't really have the time now that I am working and the shop that I work at doesn't have an in house gunsmith.
Guess I just have to wing it and see.
 
Poor mans bore slug.

goon, take a Crayola crayon, remove the paper and warm it slightly with a blow dryer.

Gently tap it/shove it an inch or two into your bore from the muzzle.

Let it cool.

Take your cleaning rod and, from the breech end, gently push it back out

Then measure it.
 
Thanks for the idea. I don't have any crayons, but I do have some candles.
;)
 
Or you can slug your bore with a 12 gauge OO buckshot pellet. use a wood dowel and a rubber mallet tap it the pellet either from the chamber to the muzzle or vice versa and you will get the average bore diameter. then measure it with calipers to find out your bore diameter.
 
Re: 303 dies , look into Lee collet dies for the .303. They only resize the neck. The .303 is problematic to reload for because most military .303 guns have extra large chambers to accommidate cruddy, corroded ammo and fired cases are quite bulged. Full length resizing leads to head case separation (luckily #4 rifles handle this well, you won't know it until you open the bolt). Neck sizing reduces the risk of this happening and also reducing powder charges for lighter range loads helps too.
 
I knew that about the .303 and my Lithgow SMLE does indeed fall into that category. The shoulder on fired brass is about 1/8 inch or so forward of where it is on an unfired round. That is why I decided to go with the neck sizing only dies, but it is still a good thing to remind us of in case anyone else is following this thread.
FYI - my 7.62x54 brass showed up today and it is Bee-u-tif-ful. :D I also ordered my dies today at the shop where I work. Won't be long till I am cranking out match rounds for the old Finn.

Ron in PA - do you have an recipes for lighter .303 loads? I am looking at trying some 123 grain SP's in my SMLE and loading them to about the level of a 7.62x39. I think it would make a great long range plinking load.
 
You can neck size with full length dies, just take out the expander ball, screw the brass part way into the press, lube the outside of the brass, push down the press arm and see how far the neck sized. Screw the die in more and more and keep sizing. Without the expander ball, the neck stays straight and does not work harden from the die adjustment process.
 
For slugging, I use bullet shaped fishing sinkers that are larger than th ebore diameter- its easy to start them, and just pound them through with an old cleaning rod or wooden dowel.


No to expander ball? I learn something new everyday, can't wait to try this. I always suspected that the expander ball pull the brass unevenly on the way out.:cool:
 
Thanks for the tips. I have my brass already and the dies are on the way. :D
 
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