Buying online vs local

[hillbilly]

Local dealers will have to adapt to the realities of competing with Internet sales....that is if they want to continue existing.

Just look to Winchester for an example of what happens to those who fail to adapt to new market realities.

But local FFLs will have to start offering and doing the things that Internet sellers just can't do...like personable customer service, repair service, tips and advice, etc. etc.

hillbilly

 

[hotpig]

Local dealers will have to adapt to the realities of competing with Internet sales....that is if they want to continue existing.

Just look to Winchester for an example of what happens to those who fail to adapt to new market realities.

But local FFLs will have to start offering and doing the things that Internet sellers just can't do...like personable customer service, repair service, tips and advice, etc. etc.

hillbilly

The problem is local Dealers are paying the same for the gun that you pay. Depending on their wholesalers you may get the gun cheaper than they can get it. This happens to me pretty often.

Why would they want the headache of owning a business that does not make them any money. You can buy their patches and cleaning kits but that is not going to keep the bills paid.

 

[STAGE 2]

But local FFLs will have to start offering and doing the things that Internet sellers just can't do...like personable customer service, repair service, tips and advice, etc. etc.

Exactly. I would have no problem spending an extra 50 or maybe even 100 at the local shop if... (and thats a real big if) instead of dealing with the fat slob behind the counter who gets all of his handgun knowledge from Doom and Counterstrike, was replaced by a knowledgable friendly, but not pushy salesman.

I'm not in sales, but if I was I would definately make sure that I was more knowledgable than 90+ percent of the customers that walked through my door. This applies to not only guns but other things such as cars and pretty much anything else you can buy. Its gotten so bad now a days that I have started to quiz the guys on the car lots about stuff from the pamphlets to see if they are even worth wasting breath over. I've yet to find one that could answer even 2 correct questions.

I expect an internet supplier to give me a really good price. Why, because they have no storefront, buy in bulk, and have little to no knowledge about what they are selling apart from being able to read their inventory list.

The countless little gunshops across the USA probably cant compete with price, but that does not they cant compete with business. Those that are savy and understand this probably already do this. Those that don't... those that give you the "I'm doing you a favor by even talking to you" attitude when you walk up to the case aren't going to survive in the long haul and thats probably for the best.

 

[Byron Quick]

I buy from both brick dealers and online and combinations. I've got a deal with my FFL as far as transfers: I won't ask him to do a transfer on an item he carries or can order. My internet purchases are generally older S&W's which he can only get by happenstance. The good stuff he obtains is usually snapped up by older and better heeled customers of his.

A while back I was in the market for a CZ 550FS in .308. I gave him first call. Several months later he still didn't have one. I posted here for help. I was directed to Gunbroker. Got one for a good price and picked it up at the dealer's in an Atlanta suburb about 170 miles from here.

I support my local dealer just as far as he supports me. He's got my business as long as he can supply my wants at an even close to reasonable price. When he can't then I go where I can obtain my wants. Simple.

 

[bobhaverford]

I purchase wherever my heart desires after factoring in advantages and disadvantages of both. There are risks associated with buying online - even new guns. You can mostly mitigate those risks by doing your homework. There are local dealers who are very knowledgable and others who don't know jack. Just yesterday I was given a whole lot of misinformation by a salesman at Dick's.

The smaller shops are not entirely reliable either. My favorite shop owner still insists to this day that there is absolutely NO difference between .308 and 7.62. He even had an "expert" confirm that he was correct.

Bottom line: I shop where my interests are best served.

 

[johnster999]

I've always bought local but want to try online. Anybody know a dealer doing transfers in NW Arkansas?

999

 

[Tejas Gunwerks]

Local dealers will have to adapt to the realities of competing with Internet sales....that is if they want to continue existing.

Just look to Winchester for an example of what happens to those who fail to adapt to new market realities.

But local FFLs will have to start offering and doing the things that Internet sellers just can't do...like personable customer service, repair service, tips and advice, etc. etc.

hillbilly

Or maybe Dealers can band together to make sure the use tax laws on sales over the Internet are enforced. Many of you complain about the "local dealer" collecting sales tax. I don't claim to be an expert in Sales/Use Tax laws, here in Texas if you purchase something over the Internet you are responsible for paying the use tax to the state. When you pubicly declare you are saving the Sales Tax, you are admiting you are breaking the law.

 

[TechBrute]

Or maybe Dealers can band together to make sure the use tax laws on sales over the Internet are enforced. Many of you complain about the "local dealer" collecting sales tax. I don't claim to be an expert in Sales/Use Tax laws, here in Texas if you purchase something over the Internet you are responsible for paying the use tax to the state. When you pubicly declare you are saving the Sales Tax, you are admiting you are breaking the law.

This is true, but let's be clear that this certainly isn't exclusive to this industry. I think the electronics industry is an exponentially bigger offender.

 

[jtward01]

I've never had a problem buying a new gun from an online seller. I've never bid on one in an auction, though. When I see a new gun listed that I want I contact the seller and ask him what's the best price I can get on one just like the one in the auction. Then I call a couple local dealers and ask their prices. Invariably, the online dealer's price is 25 percent or more lower than the local prices so I buy from the online dealer.

 

[STAGE 2]

I don't claim to be an expert in Sales/Use Tax laws, here in Texas if you purchase something over the Internet you are responsible for paying the use tax to the state.

How exactly would you go about doing that? Do states have a department for collecting sales tax that you can make a check out to? Just curious.

 

[TechBrute]

How exactly would you go about doing that? Do states have a department for collecting sales tax that you can make a check out to? Just curious.

Yes, I believe it's at your county courthouse in Texas. I don't know about elsewhere. My boss is, among other things, an attorney. He launched into a speech about internet taxation and how sales tax would have to be collected federally if they really wanted to enforce that.

 

[Tejas Gunwerks]

How exactly would you go about doing that? Do states have a department for collecting sales tax that you can make a check out to? Just curious.

Yeah, it is called the Comptroller. Go online download the proper form and send it in to the address indicated. Or just ignore the law like 99.999...% of the people do, and bitch about what a crook your local dealer is.

 

[solareclipse]

depending on the gun, i can save 300$ online. i buy ammo locally though.

 

[STAGE 2]

Or just ignore the law like 99.999...% of the people do, and bitch about what a crook your local dealer is.

The prices that I see have little to do with the sales tax. If that was the case I would gladly buy local and forgo the shipping costs. The difference is in the markup sans sales tax, shipping, and all of those other fun charges.

 

[Tejas Gunwerks]

The prices that I see have little to do with the sales tax. If that was the case I would gladly buy local and forgo the shipping costs. The difference is in the markup sans sales tax, shipping, and all of those other fun charges.

I wasn't really addressing the sales tax issue per se, but the bitching about what crooks Dealers are. How dare them to charge for shipping, transfers, marking up for credit card use and the fact we like to make a profit for our efforts. I find it most interesting that those threatening to call the credit card company or BATFE are breaking the law themselves.

 

[NineseveN]

I wasn't really addressing the sales tax issue per se, but the bitching about what crooks Dealers are. How dare them to charge for shipping, transfers, marking up for credit card use and the fact we like to make a profit for our efforts. I find it most interesting that those threatening to call the credit card company or BATFE are breaking the law themselves.

I won't go as far as to say they're crooks, they're in a business to make money, the same as everyone else. But as a consumer, I am in the business of saving money when I can when I shop. I certainly won't try and nickle and dime a guy into the poor house if the service is good. Of course, that's getting to be a rare thing these days.

I bought all but 2 handguns I have ever owned through Gander Mountain. I paid probably about $100.00 over what I would have had I gone online, but the sales guy I went to was a really nice guy and fun to chat with. He didn't know everything, but he knew a lot. Some things he was dead wrong on (industry news, new products etc...) across the board, but no one is perfect, right?

Anyway, I bought a Steyr M9 from them, and about 2 months later, I was firing it and somehow the action got completely seized up with a round in the chamber. The firing pin had released (or should have as I pulled the trigger) as there was no tension on the trigger. I was nervous as heck bringing the gun back with a live round in the pipe, but I was extra careful and followed every safety rule I knew of for a situation like that. I tried and tried and could not get it open myself. I took it back.

I went in without the gun at first and explained my problem. The guy that I normally dealt with was not there so I had to talk to someone else, a nice younger kid. I brought it in, he looked at it and had the gunsmith look at it. About 10 minutes later the smith comes out and says he used a punch to pry it open and that he'd never seen that happen before. he fired a couple of test rounds and it seemed to be fine as far as he could tell. I was happy.

2 weeks later, the same thing happened. I brought the gun, my range log (showing the rounds I shot and the result -I used to keep one of these for every new gun) and saw the guy I normally dealt with.

He said that Steyr was out of business for good (I had heard that they just lost their factory, not that they went out of business, but he insisted). Anyway, he talked to the manager and they agreed to take the gun back since they couldn't send it to Steyr for warranty work.

I got a Baby Eagle in trade, and he threw in an extra mag and a box of ammo (which as I understand it, he was not allowed to do but hey, nice guy like I said). I was very pleased with the service overall.

A week later, I saw my Steyr in the used case...they still stock Steyr's (as they hadn't gone out of business).

6 months ago I moved 85 miles away from that store, but I have a newly built Gander about 2 minutes from me. I went up there the day after Christmas asking about the new XD .45ACP. The guy I got was extremely clueless about it. But I walked him through looking it up and searching the Gander inventory for one. They of course did not have one. He asked me about the gun and he seemed to be really impressed, but his knowledge was pretty sub par when it came to firearms. He was a super nice guy though, probably new. Anyway, he asked someone about it and came back and took my name and number and said when they called their distributor they could see if they could get one or what the wait would be on one.

I still haven't heard anything back. I know folks that have their XD .45's already, I haven't even gotten a call back.


All of my rifles I got on-line and went through a basement FFL dealer. I always had great experiences with him and have recommended him countless times for transfers and purchases. he has rough hours, but he's a cool guy, too bad he's 70 miles away now. The last handgun I bought I bought through him after I moved. I drove 140 miles round trip to give him my business, but I can't honestly do that every time. I need to find a new dealer out here.

 

[pete f]

everybody has had good experiences and bad experiences,

everybody wants to save money, but everyone still wants the guy who has a shop, who sits there hour after hour doing not a whole lot of sales waiting for you to walk in and have him hand you a great gun at a killer price.

You cannot have it all. I frequent two or three old time gunshops on a regular basis for a reason. I LIKE having them around, they buy used guns, which brings guns out of the wood work that i can not find elsewhere. they have boxes of trade in crap, gun cases, slings, holsters, broken boxes of ammo or components. sometimes even used reloading gear. I buy that stuff for a song. EVERY time i walk in the door i expect it to cost ten bucks. There is no such thing as browsing in a old time gun shop. YOU have to pay for the privilege. Pay the man. Buy ten bucks of patches, or solvent, or primers, or powder, or or or, BUY SOMETHING. If every guy who walked thru the front door did that, he could stay in business.

I used to work some in local Shop that has now died, but I was amazed at the number of regulars who would show up look around, drink the coffee and walk out empty handed. I got in trouble from the owner one day for commenting on such a fact to one man who I knew could afford to drop a few bucks every day. But the next time the guy walked in, he bought case of shotgun shells. He admitted he had been buying them from Target because it was 3 bucks cheaper a case and they took plastic. His comment was I can live without Target, but I really do not want to live without you guys. He was shooting trap at the time and it was a case a week from then on. I also added a change can for coffee and started having pop for a fifty cents a bottle, I think we were buying it at the grocery store for 20 cents a bottle but we added $50 a week in cash flow to the store.

Think to your self what that gun shop is worth to you, then decide to help keep it afloat. Also develop a relationship with the guy, talk to him, tell him nicely what sorts of things you would like to see him carry. We have a local shop that is now carrying some carry leather. They have a salesperson who has become quite knowlegable about it and they will order anything in, 2 day delivery, no commitment needed (provided it is for a standard gun. ie, sig glock 1911 hk) Do they have a huge selection? no, but they do have enough so you can get an idea about workmanship, and you can try a few different styles and they have some blue guns so you try one on and see how the gun reaches etc. and they did this because they viewed it as a niche market and something they can make money at.

Sure we all can buy a gun at wally world, (did you know they have 22 inch stainless 10-22's?) and i do buy sometimes from them, but I can live without walmart, but i can not live without my gunshops, so i go there more.

samething with internet sales. I know one guy who has a thriving business doing internet sales. all new guns, he does it all from a office, no inventory just a drop ship account with a wholesaler. you buy from him, he enters it in puter and XYZ sports in some southern state fills the order and ships it out. He never lays eyes on it. You get the gun at your FFL dealer and brag that you saved 8 bucks over what he had in the gun case. Next time walk and offer your local dealer the chance to come close to the price.

Now if you want a 1931 model 54, the internet is a great place to find three or four of them for sale at once, where it may have been five years since i saw the last one on a rack anywhere. The last one i saw on a rack in 22 hornet was maybe fifteen years ago, and this morning i found three online.
there is a place for internet sales and for FTF sale in a gunshop. Just remember if your FFL gun shop goes away, who is going to do the transfers, Gander? dicks ? wallyworld? think about it .

 

[bobhaverford]

Or maybe Dealers can band together to make sure the use tax laws on sales over the Internet are enforced. Many of you complain about the "local dealer" collecting sales tax. I don't claim to be an expert in Sales/Use Tax laws, here in Texas if you purchase something over the Internet you are responsible for paying the use tax to the state. When you pubicly declare you are saving the Sales Tax, you are admiting you are breaking the law.

Terry,

Now why would you want to do that? You sell a ton over the internet. Your business enjoys great advantages because of the internet. Listen, before you bite the hand that feeds you perhaps you ought to give it a little thought.

 

[Marshall]

This Margin thing still has me befuddled. The dealer should be buying from a distributor for wholesale thus having a price that is less than buying the gun on-line, like you can, then marking it up from there.

 

[SixForSure]

see if your computer can fix your gun when it needs a repair..... not beating you up at all my friend, but i like to deal locally, that way if there is a problem the dealer can fix it right away. if you go to the local dealer and didnt buy the gun from them you go to the bottom of the pile when it comes to service. just my thoughts, i like to save money too, but i find its cheaper in the long run to negotiate a fair price (not chisle the poor guy down to bare bones) and get good service later.

Thank You Palerider1. I am not a gun dealer, I am a bicycle dealer and run into the same problems. My response is often "try and get it serviced on the internet" I even have people buy parts on the net and bring them to me to install. Believe it or not some of them are surprised when I tell them there is a charge for it as the price they paid plus installation is often more than what they would have paid buying it from me. And yes, I do put store customers ahead of others on the priority list.

 

[Tejas Gunwerks]

Terry,

Now why would you want to do that? You sell a ton over the internet. Your business enjoys great advantages because of the internet. Listen, before you bite the hand that feeds you perhaps you ought to give it a little thought.

Obviously, this was said tounge in cheek, as a way to vent about they statements about Dealers being crooks. The point I'm making is if you are engaging in illegal activity, quit bitching about Dealers who aren't engaging in illegal activity, just doing something you may not agree with. Too many of you are getting on you high horses while you are breaking the law yourselves.

 

[Tejas Gunwerks]

This Margin thing still has me befuddled. The dealer should be buying from a distributor for wholesale thus having a price that is less than buying the gun on-line, like you can, then marking it up from there.

There are different pricing structures. Some Dealers get better prices than others. This is because of volume. Walmart sells some firearms cheaper than I can buy them for wholesale. My overhead might be higher than someone working off their kitchen table. So he makes twenty dollars and he is happy, he has a full time job and what he makes off the sale of his firearms doesn't affect his standard of living. For others it does matter. We like to eat ever once in a while. We generally offer more services and have inventory. We have a business location.

 

[hotpig]

Some Whole salers are selling to the public so that is making it hard for us small guys to compete. I have been doing this long enough that I know that I can not sell new guns for a profit. I guess since I made almost 4.00 on the last 1911 that I sold some may say I profitted. But, I have to pay for my web store and toll free phone number also.

Got to love them 4am calls from guys that say they just placed an order and wanted to confirm that I received it.

20.00 on a internet sale is huge!! I would increase my stock if I could make that kind of money on new gun sales. I can make some money on used guns, but I have to be very careful on what I buy. Right now used Glocks and Sigs are flooded on the market. I do not waste my money since they will not sell for any more than I paid for them.