C&R App, CLEO issue.

[SomeKid]

Edited to add: The $10 is not a shakedown. I know where it goes. Please read everything before posting replies.

I have applied and sent my applications into both the ATF and sent the CLEO copy to my County Sheriff. The Sheriff sent a letter back to me, and I have typed it out so everyone can get the entire idea of what my question is. (Any bold is mine, my changes are in parenthesis, and typos are not mine.)

Mr. (SomeKid),

Enclosed is your application for a Federal Firearms License.

This application requires the Sheriff to notify the ATF should he have any information that may disqualify you for obtaining a Federal Firearms License.

Our present procedure is that we will perform the background check on everyone listed on the license at a cost of $10.00 each person and if cleared, the Sheriff will approve the application.

I need each person to present to me in person their driver's license, the attached forms, and $10.00 each before the background can be conducted:

Please call and set up a time to come and complete the paperwork at (Number).

Thank you for you assistance in this matter.

Sincerely,
(Person at HCSD)

Also enclosed was a form for me to fill out, with a load of questions, such as where I work, and contact information for them.

Before my question, I want to comment on the $10. That is the exact charge for a TBI background check. The Sheriff is not adding a charge there for himself. Pretty much everything else is from him though.

So, here is my question. As I understand it, the CLEO doesn't approve squat. However, the forms that I originally sent to him have been returned to me. Have I satisfied my requirement for notifying the Sheriff? Are there any issues I should be aware of should I decide to simply keep everything and file it away? Any thoughts or comments?

 

[jrou111]

IIRC, the only responsibility in the CLEO on the C&R is for them to notify the ATF if you have some sort of restriction. The ATF is only looking for an approved or denied response.

per the guide on Surplusrifles.com "It is their(the CLEO's) duty to contact ATF if they have an issue with your application. The CLEO copy does not need payment information attached"

 

[arthurcw]

Someone else posted something similar here a few weeks back. The consensus (I believe) was that you are good and have done what was asked of you.

I think this may be a question for the ATF. I'm sure someone from our Boys in Boots could let you know if you have fulfilled your requirements.

 

[Ed Ames]

This check may be important for dealers, but not for you... ignore it. The ATF doesn't care if the CLEO "approves" you. The only thing the ATF cares about is whether the CLEO has information (i.e. about an ongoing investigation) that would cause the ATF to defer or decline your approval... and they have no such info, right?

The CLEO won't go on record with false info because when it gets out it'll be a major stink.

 

[bogie]

You can either argue, or pay the $10. Basic background check, but I'm guessing what is going on is pretty much of "the _elected_ sherrif doesn't want anything bad springing up about him allowing something he shouldn't," variety, so it really isn't that big a deal. Pay it, and forget it.

He wants to see your face. He doesn't wanna read about him granting an FFL, of ANY sort, to somebody's cat, or to some lowlife...

 

[musher]

The CLEO doesn't get to approve the application. You notify the CLEO of your intent to obtain a license by mailing them a copy of the application. If the CLEO has information indicating that you are not qualified, it is their responsibility to contact ATF.

If the CLEO does not contact the ATF and ATF doesn't find anything in your background that disqualifies you, then you will get the license.

If the CLEO wants to run a background check on you, they're free to do so, but you don't have to pay for it. You're also not responsible for what the CLEO does with the copy of the application you sent them. They could round-file it for all you know. Your obligation is simply to provide them with a copy.

I'd keep the correspondence to show that they received and decided to return the app.

 

[SomeKid]

Musher, I will definintely be keeping the correspondence. I plan to stick it in my safe for, well, safe keeping.

Here is what I plan to do:

Nothing but file away his reply. My understanding has always been that the Sheriff has to contact the ATF, and all I was required to do was let the CLEO know I was applying for an FFL. He was informed. He wants to do a background check, get a lot of personal information, and then 'approve' my papers. As far as I can tell, I have fulfilled my obligation, his wants are not my concern.

Am I correct?

(The main purpose of this thread is basically the question: Is there any requirement I go along with CLEO wishes like this, or is one notification all that is required?)

 

[CZ 75 BD]

In my opinion, Brother Bogie has it exactly backwards. As Musher says, keep all correspondence and go your merry way. No need to fill out anything else or pay anything else. IMO

 

[musher]

Somekid,

My opinion is worth exactly what you pay for it, but I think your plan is the correct course of action. It's what I would do.

 

[Outlaws]

After you get the C&R in the mail, send the sheriff $10 in Monopoly money.

 

[loumarch]

I went through this same thing when I applied for my C&R. The Chief of my local police force sent me a letter saying he was uncomfortable with my decision to get a collector's license. He said that he was worried about the "criminal element" targeting me.

I didn't respond to him and I received my license 3 weeks later.

Save the letter but DO NOTHING ELSE. You've complied with the rules.

 

[k_dawg]

It is basically informing the CLEO and giving him an opportunity to speak up [ should have have just cause to believe you are not qualified ].

Forwarding the form to the CLEO completes your requirements, as far as teh ATF is concerned.

 

[Technosavant]

+1 on the "save letter, do nothing."

Methinks you won't hear anything else about it. If he contacts you, just tell him that the regulations state that he must be notified, and the letter he sent you requesting cash will serve as a receipt that he has been notified. There is no local background check required for a 03 FFL- at all. The check the ATF will do covers more jurisdictions anyway.

As for the fellow who was worried about the criminal element targeting licensees, FFLs are not the most public of information (especially the C&R one), and the criminals out there running around are HIS job anyway. A 03 FFL is no higher target than the average person. A criminal would have a hard time doing much mayhem with a Mosin-Nagant anyway. Or just think of the fun of watching the local thug try to find ammo for his newly stolen 1893 Nagant revolver. That would be good TV.

 

[Sistema1927]

File the Sheriff's letter away as proof that you did your part in notifying the CLEO, and don't send him any money. Funny how those who are charged with enforcing the laws can be so clueless as to the nature of the law.

 

[Ed Ames]

The security issue is relevant to deciding whether to get a C&R FFL, but not really the LEO's business. Receiving firearms by UPS gets kinda obvious... especially after UPS throwers get done with a shoddily packaged box of bolt action rifles. UPS drivers give you very funny looks when they unload long skinny "adult signature required" boxes with gun barrels poking out either end. I know that one first hand. Unfortunately, I also know enough about human nature to know that that's now one of his storries to tell buddies, and that could result in some added risk to me.

Or just think of the fun of watching the local thug try to find ammo for his newly stolen 1893 Nagant revolver.

30 second internet search says: 32 H&R Magnum, or 32S&W Long, will work.

There are plenty of C&R firearms (1911 pistols and SKSes included) that are reasonably "modern" in their function, ammunition, and effectiveness.

 

[cracked butt]

The CLEO doing a background check on you is redundant- the BATFE certainly did one on you before issuing your license. The main reason I think that the CLEO must be notified is if there is a local ordinance prohibiting you from obtaining the license or that the CLEO is suspicious of you for something (you live in a reputed crack den or under investigation for something). The CLEO does not have to approve your application or even correspond with the BATF in any way, shape, or form unless they know of a legal reason that you shouldn't obtain the license.

 

[vynx]

Gee I wonder if that same sheriff worries about the criminal element targeting banks and liqour stores and jewlery shops?

Whats next no drivers licenses because he worries that innocent people might speed?

 

[GreenFurniture]

They're right. File the letter away and wait by your mailbox for your FFL.

The rule states you only need to NOTIFY the CLEO, not gain their approval.

If you've got any problems PM me, I'm in Knoxville and have been through a couple of FFL acquisitions.

 

[MAURICE]

The ATF is going to do the same your CLEO would do.
That is run you through NCIC and your states instant check (here it is ACIC) and approve you once it comes back clean.
You have notified your CLEO. Send in your app and be done with it.

 

[sctman800]

you are good to go, save the letter as proof he was notified, you are done, Jim.

 

[madmattmd]

The information I received from the BATF is that the documents sent to your local law enforcement official is for notification purposes only. The LLEO has no ability to influence the C&R application process if you have no (undisclosed) history that would bar your getting the C&R. I surmised the notification is so that the LLEO is made aware that a specific resident/residence may possess a significant amount of firearms (more than one?) in the event of an incident report for that address.

As others have advised, I would keep the letter in your file with all FFL related documents and ignore the request.

As an alternative, you might consider sending the LLEO a response that politely thanks them for their kind offer to perform a background check and respectfully decline the offer as inconsequential to the C&R application process.

Take care,
Matt

 

[raxafarian]

you are done

Do not send anything else to CLEO. There is no need to try and educate them. As mentioned above...your only responsibility is to send a copy to CLEO. No further action required no matter what CLEO may tell you.