C&R Questions

[Shrevy]

I have a few questions about buying old military surplus with (or without) a C&R license. Not sure this is the best forum, but it seems more to have more traffic than the Legal forum. It also looks like there are several here that use a C&R.

1) If I don't have a C&R license, can I sell to someone out of state and not use an FFL?
2) If I have a C&R, do all C&R eligible guns have to be purchased with the C&R? Or, can I just do a face-to-face transaction with an in state seller and not record it in the C&R book?
3) If after 3 years I let a C&R license expire, do I have to send my C&R book to the ATF (like an FFL has to when it goes out of business)?

Thanks

 

[Flyboy73]

1. Even if you have a C&R, It must go to a FFL.

2. You can do Face to Face. But most everyone seems to agree, that all C&R guns bought after you get the C&R, should be logged in.

3. No.

Brion

 

[shotgunjoel]

While you don't have to send in your bound book, I do think that you are required to keep it for something like 5-10 years.

 

[Shrevy]

flyboy,

I thought one of the reason to have a C&R was so that you did not have to use an FFL for C&R eligible guns?

Why do most people log purchases into a C&R book if they are not required to?

Are C&R books free to be destroyed upon surrender of the license? Or, do they have to be retained for a period of years as shotgunhjoel suspects?

 

[Lee Roder]

shrevy, you asked, "If I DON'T have a C&R license, can I sell to someone out of state and not use an FFL?"

since you are unlicensed, ANY interstate transaction must be thru full fledged FFL, one who is in the "business" of such activity (not just another C&R license holder). And indeed, many intrastate transactions might similarly be regulated, C&R license or no, depending upon your state of residence, california being the most prominent example i can think of.

my literal reading of the federal rules is that ALL C&R acquisitions while licensed MUST BE logged, even if you never use your license for purchase. there are no "private" or "outside of business hours" transactions with the C&R license as might reasonably be for FFL01. but SWIM says that it's sort of a gray area as in who's to say, unless your dumb, you aren't closely watched as you would be if you were 01

records are only required while licensed. once unlicensed, you can destroy your records.

 

[NCsmitty]

Shrevy, possessing a C&R allows you to collect milsurp arms that are 50 years old or more, and arms deemed by ATF as collectible, and have them sent to you as a C&R FFL.
A C&R license is not a license to buy and sell milsurp arms and you must adhere to ATF laws governing the selling of arms. If you sell an occasional milsurp that usually won't raise redflags at ATF, but if you make a habit of it, you may get a visit from them.


NCsmitty

 

[OldMac]

1. No
2. All C&R eligible firearms acquired while you have your 03FFL must be logged regardless of how you acquired them. If you owned them before obtaining the 03FFL, they do not need to be logged in but they must be logged out if they are disposed of during your license period.
3. You do not need to send in your book but you must keep it. I thought read that it was 20yrs after the collectors license expires. I should know but would appreciate the chapter and verse if anyone has it handy to refresh.

 

[zoom6zoom]

Some good info. http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/howtogetyourcurionrelicffl03/index.asp

 

[Lee Roder]

CFR 478.129 Record Retention

(c) Records of dealers and collectors under the Act.

The records prepared by licensed dealers and licensed collectors under the Act of the sale or other disposition of firearms and the corresponding record of receipt of such firearms shall be retained through December 15, 1988, after which records of transactions over 20 years of age may be discarded.

The only record required for collectors under the Act is the bound book. Unlike dealer records (e.g. 4473's etc) whose retention is specified elsewhere in the Act, the Act specifies no retention period for the bound book. So no retention is required upon license termination.