Ok, Now that I have finally figured out what c&r stood for.. I want one. So.... What is a good starting spot? I want someting to play with, not hunt with. Something not expensive to shoot and something that will at least hit a target. (roomate in college had a swedish that grouped hour of angle) So where do I start and what advice can you give. Oh by the way, are thare any cheap semi c&r?
C&R Rifle
- Thread starter Ed
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Sir Galahad
member
Mosin Nagant 91/30. Lots of military surplus ammo out there for it and its cheap. Even the newly made ammo for it is cheap.
cheygriz
member
I'll second the Mosin-Nagant! There are also some excellent 8MM Mauser 98 Type rifles under $200, and quality 8MM is dirt cheap also. Another option is a Yugo SKS. Semi-auto, 10 shot and again dirt cheap ammo.
My personal favorites are the Lee-Enfields, but milsurp ammo seems to be drying up quickly. Too bad!
BTW: If you're going to start collecting C&R guns, spend $30 and get a C&R license from BATF. Easy to get, and it allows you to order online and have them shipped direct to your home.
My personal favorites are the Lee-Enfields, but milsurp ammo seems to be drying up quickly. Too bad!
BTW: If you're going to start collecting C&R guns, spend $30 and get a C&R license from BATF. Easy to get, and it allows you to order online and have them shipped direct to your home.
PerfectGlock
Member
I'd suggest the Mosin-Nagant M44. Lots of fun, cheap, plentiful ammunition, folding bayonet, and lots of noise and muzzle flash! The Mosin-Nagants are pretty accurate, with the Finnish M39s being the most accurate. However, none of the variations are as fun as the M44 for the reasons stated above. Sure, it won't be as accurate, and it will kick a little more, but that's what's so fun about it.
As for cheap semi-autos, the SKSs are your best bet. In my opinion, the Yugos are the best, due to all of the unneccesary features and better construction.
And remember, whatever you do, don't sporterize it!
As for cheap semi-autos, the SKSs are your best bet. In my opinion, the Yugos are the best, due to all of the unneccesary features and better construction.
And remember, whatever you do, don't sporterize it!
Mosin-Nagant. I would get a fullsized version, since the sawed off ones are known to beat the snot out of you. Non-corrosive ammo is about $100 for 500 rounds, and that is what I think gives it the edge over the mauser. Lots of cheap ammo for the Mausers , but most of it is corrosive. I know, clean it right and it won't cause problems, but still....
I have an M-48, but I haven't shot it yet. I refuse to buy that $17 a box Remington stuff, and I don't want to shoot corrosive stuff through it either. I will eventually try to find some NC surplus for it, but for now it is just another dust magnet. It is a really nice, quality rifle. But the Finn Mosin Nagant still has it outclassed. If you plan on only one C&R, get the Finn.
Yugo SKS's run around $150 if you want a semi-auto. I think that Albanians run around $250+, so if you want cheap, the Yugo wins.
The story about your roomates Swede is odd, since they are know to be among the best C&R's for accuracy.
I have an M-48, but I haven't shot it yet. I refuse to buy that $17 a box Remington stuff, and I don't want to shoot corrosive stuff through it either. I will eventually try to find some NC surplus for it, but for now it is just another dust magnet. It is a really nice, quality rifle. But the Finn Mosin Nagant still has it outclassed. If you plan on only one C&R, get the Finn.
Yugo SKS's run around $150 if you want a semi-auto. I think that Albanians run around $250+, so if you want cheap, the Yugo wins.
The story about your roomates Swede is odd, since they are know to be among the best C&R's for accuracy.
cabinetman
Member
C&R
One of the best kept "secrets" for firearm enthusiests is the Curio or Relic license. It's a bonefide FFL commonly called an "03" license as opposed to an firearms dealer's "01" license.
There are three extremely important features of having a C&R.
1) You can buy as many qualified pistols and rifles as you can afford WITHOUT going through NICS or filling out yellow forms. You simply plop down your license and whip out your credit card. Imagine that. You could buy 1, 100, or 1000 pieces without anyone knowing except you and the dealer. He doesn't report it and neither do you so there's no paper trail except the 01 logs it out as sold and you log it in as aquired.
2) You are no longer trapped into buying just from your own state. You can now buy from all 50 states and have the firearms delivered directly to your door. This beneifit of 'interstate commerce with firearms" is invaluable. You will no longer have to deal with an 01 for transfer. I, personally, have purchased firearms from coast to coast with nothing more than a phone call, credit card number and a stamp when I mail my C&R to the dealer.
3) You, personally, can now buy directly from the importers and dealers which eliminates the middle man. Your first purchase will save you the $35 fee for the license.
When you get your C&R, DON'T sign the original license. Make about 20 copies of that unsigned license and put the original away for safe keeping and future copies. Fold and put to copies in your wallet; you never know when you may stop at some little shop in your travels and find something you can't live without. Then sign a bunch of them and send them to all the advertisers who offer C&R purchases: SOG, IO, AIM, FAC, CIA, etc., etc. Attach a short letter asking them to lodge your C&R with their company. Then, if you find something you'd like to puchase, all you have to do is call with your credit card and VOILA! it's shipped to you within a day or so.
As for what you collect, that will depend on what "theme" you are looking for in your collections. There are literally thousands of pieces eligible for C&R purchase. I only collect semi-autos. Some guys only collect MN91/30s or Enfields and all their iterations. Some guys collect only bolts. The world will be your oyster.
Whatever you decide to collect, however, make a comprehensive list of all the rifles/pistols in that catagory so you can identify the more rare varieties so you can pursue them first as they will become rarer each and every day. You'll always be able to buy mausers and M91/30s all day long. They are everwhere. OTOH, You'll find that some rifles/pistols are very hard to find and are only available from time to time from another collector selling a duplicate. The auction sites are best for those.
Finally, remember that there is the "bound book" issue which will require that you log any aquisition you get within 24 hours. This is regardless if you use your C&R to obtain it or not. You'll occasionally run across a "uninformed" 01 FFL who will be reluctant to accept your license. If you end up buying it anyway, it is still a C&R and must be logged.
Good luck with this. It's a really wonderful license to have and puts you into a completely different league than non-C&R holders.
Rome
One of the best kept "secrets" for firearm enthusiests is the Curio or Relic license. It's a bonefide FFL commonly called an "03" license as opposed to an firearms dealer's "01" license.
There are three extremely important features of having a C&R.
1) You can buy as many qualified pistols and rifles as you can afford WITHOUT going through NICS or filling out yellow forms. You simply plop down your license and whip out your credit card. Imagine that. You could buy 1, 100, or 1000 pieces without anyone knowing except you and the dealer. He doesn't report it and neither do you so there's no paper trail except the 01 logs it out as sold and you log it in as aquired.
2) You are no longer trapped into buying just from your own state. You can now buy from all 50 states and have the firearms delivered directly to your door. This beneifit of 'interstate commerce with firearms" is invaluable. You will no longer have to deal with an 01 for transfer. I, personally, have purchased firearms from coast to coast with nothing more than a phone call, credit card number and a stamp when I mail my C&R to the dealer.
3) You, personally, can now buy directly from the importers and dealers which eliminates the middle man. Your first purchase will save you the $35 fee for the license.
When you get your C&R, DON'T sign the original license. Make about 20 copies of that unsigned license and put the original away for safe keeping and future copies. Fold and put to copies in your wallet; you never know when you may stop at some little shop in your travels and find something you can't live without. Then sign a bunch of them and send them to all the advertisers who offer C&R purchases: SOG, IO, AIM, FAC, CIA, etc., etc. Attach a short letter asking them to lodge your C&R with their company. Then, if you find something you'd like to puchase, all you have to do is call with your credit card and VOILA! it's shipped to you within a day or so.
As for what you collect, that will depend on what "theme" you are looking for in your collections. There are literally thousands of pieces eligible for C&R purchase. I only collect semi-autos. Some guys only collect MN91/30s or Enfields and all their iterations. Some guys collect only bolts. The world will be your oyster.
Whatever you decide to collect, however, make a comprehensive list of all the rifles/pistols in that catagory so you can identify the more rare varieties so you can pursue them first as they will become rarer each and every day. You'll always be able to buy mausers and M91/30s all day long. They are everwhere. OTOH, You'll find that some rifles/pistols are very hard to find and are only available from time to time from another collector selling a duplicate. The auction sites are best for those.
Finally, remember that there is the "bound book" issue which will require that you log any aquisition you get within 24 hours. This is regardless if you use your C&R to obtain it or not. You'll occasionally run across a "uninformed" 01 FFL who will be reluctant to accept your license. If you end up buying it anyway, it is still a C&R and must be logged.
Good luck with this. It's a really wonderful license to have and puts you into a completely different league than non-C&R holders.
Rome
As a clarification to my roomated mauser. It was a 6.5x55 sweedish. he bought it in 1996 for $99 so no telling if it was "used " by someone else and sold to the dealer. I might have misspoken when I talked about grouping also. It shot 6 feet right at about 35 yards. and keyholed sometimes too. So it was just a really bad sample. I'd like one though. Thanks for all my responses so far.
DMK
Member
I'd get a Finnish M/39. They are the Creme of the Creme of Mosins and are starting to get limited in availability.
Yugo SKS are great deals right now too. Low cost and very nice. They can't last forever.
You can get both from www.gunsnammo.com
One of the cardinal rules of C&R collecting is strike while the iron's hot! If you see some great deals on nice guns, don't wait, grab em now. I missed out on great condition Romanian SKS and 1927 Sistema's among some others. Now those great deals are gone, gone, gone.
jar
Contributing Member
Alerion
Member
Well, my first C&R purchase was a Finn M39 and I'll second that it's a great way to start... but for good cheap fun, it's hard to beat an SKS!
Tom
Tom
cheygriz
member
Goon,
My friend, you're really missing out on some excellent, cheap ammo! I've fired tons of corrosive ammo thriugh some very fine rifles with no problems at all.
You just clean it a little differently.
My friend, you're really missing out on some excellent, cheap ammo! I've fired tons of corrosive ammo thriugh some very fine rifles with no problems at all.
You just clean it a little differently.
Kimber Kid
Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2003
- Messages
- 33
Get the M-48 or M-48A while the getting is good. Ammo is cheap just wash the barrel and bolt face with an ammonia (glass cleaner) after you shoot it.
An East German or Russian Makarov is C&R.
Enjoy
An East German or Russian Makarov is C&R.
Enjoy
Ed,
The trouble with Swedish Mausers is that they're addicting. It seems that no one I know can own "just" one.
All of them I own have been accurate. The short ones (23.6" barrell) usually have the sights set for 100 meters. The long ones
(29" barrell) usually have sights set for 300 meters. I've had one sporterized and re-using the # 2 barrell we achieved .85" with 3-shot group at 117 yds. All of them I've seen are amazing accurate.
Expect to pay around $200-250 for one, maybe more. They're getting harder to find.
The trouble with Swedish Mausers is that they're addicting. It seems that no one I know can own "just" one.
All of them I own have been accurate. The short ones (23.6" barrell) usually have the sights set for 100 meters. The long ones
(29" barrell) usually have sights set for 300 meters. I've had one sporterized and re-using the # 2 barrell we achieved .85" with 3-shot group at 117 yds. All of them I've seen are amazing accurate.
Expect to pay around $200-250 for one, maybe more. They're getting harder to find.
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