C96 Mauser (Shooting it as a pistol cartridge carbine)

[Littlef]

I was trying to think up new stuff to do at the range. My range opened up a section with steel targets. I took my World War I era C96 Broomhandle Mauser pistol, attached the stock, used it as a PCC, and shot it from a VTAC wood barrier. It was a fun day. I made this little video.

 

[tark]

Cool video Littlef ! have a couple of -96s myself and I shoot one a lot. The other one has never been fired .

 

[Littlef]

Cool video Littlef ! have a couple of -96s myself and I shoot one a lot. The other one has never been fired .

Thank you very much! I do not shoot mine very much. Its in amazing condition inside and out, all matching and original finish. It spends most of the time in the safe. Making this video is probably the most rounds I've put through it at one time.

 

[gobsauce]

I was trying to think up new stuff to do at the range. My range opened up a section with steel targets. I took my World War I era C96 Broomhandle Mauser pistol, attached the stock, used it as a PCC, and shot it from a VTAC wood barrier. It was a fun day. I made this little video.

Sorry to bother with questions, but weren't they chambered in 7.63 x25? Not 7.62x25?

 

[Littlef]

yes, I mis-spoke, but didn't catch it until after it was already uploaded. 7.63x25 is accurate. I can't fix the video, but I did make a notation in the video description on youtube.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

"... weren't [C96s] chambered in 7.63 x25? Not 7.62x25?"

That opens a can of worms.

The Russian 7.62x25mm Tokarev was developed directly from the German 7.63mm Mauser pistol round which is a hot version of the older 7.65mm Borchardt.
There is actually very little difference in standard loadings for between 7.62 Tokarev and 7.63 Mauser pistol rounds.

In deference to antique war trophy C96 Mauser pistols with worn out recoil and hammer springs, some commercial .30 Mauser (7,63mm Mauser) cartridges are loaded to a muzzle velocity of 1450 fps. German WWII issue ammo is rated at 1550 fps.

For most of my life 7.63mm Mauser has been 7.63mm Mauser or .30 Mauser Pistol. I think the 7.63x25mm is an atrocious neologism. The spec for the Mauser cartrdge case is 25.15mm length, for the Tokarev 25mm period, and it is recommended to check case length if reloading Mauser fired cases for cartridges for use in a Tokarev. Calling it 7.63x25mm is not historic and calling it 7.63x25.15mm would be inane.

 

[Littlef]

All valid points. I'll take this as a learning experience, of the importance of double checking the details before uploading.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Couple questions.
Is there an issue with attaching the stock, from a legal point of view? Late buddy picked up a board stock for his HiPower, and claimed it was a non-issue, from the gummint's point of view.
I've a Red 9 C96; it's been reblued, but seems tight, and runs well. Is there anything that should be checked, from a safety point of view?
Any issue with my 1100'sec reloads?
Great video; thnx!

Moon

 

[Littlef]

Thanks! There are certain models that are exempted from being considered a short barrel rifle, when attaching the stock. Not all of the c96 models are automatically exempt. Some of the later models are not exempt. I researched mine, and it fits within the exemption. If you want to attach a stock to a pistol, I would recommend going to the ATF website and doing some reading. I believe luger naval and artillery models are exempt. But, not all lugers that have a slot are exempt. With the highpowers, the same thing applies. I believe some are also exempt, and some are not. Its well worth doing some reading to keep yourself out of trouble.

Regarding checking a firearm for safety. Yes, you should check any used firearm. I can't really tell you what to check. I always completely tear down and clean any new acquisition. While I'm doing a detailed cleaning, I inspect every part for cracks/breaks/chips, or any kind of wear that seems odd. I check the fit for how it all goes together. I'm not a gunsmith, but after you do it a while, you start recognizing things that just seem "off." Look for parts that might seem to have too much play, or anything that seems to bind, or anything that shows wear. ie too much wear, which could be sign it might need to be replaced, or finding wear in a place you would not expect wear.

 

[gobsauce]

"... weren't [C96s] chambered in 7.63 x25? Not 7.62x25?"

That opens a can of worms.

The Russian 7.62x25mm Tokarev was developed directly from the German 7.63mm Mauser pistol round which is a hot version of the older 7.65mm Borchardt.
There is actually very little difference in standard loadings for between 7.62 Tokarev and 7.63 Mauser pistol rounds.

In deference to antique war trophy C96 Mauser pistols with worn out recoil and hammer springs, some commercial .30 Mauser (7,63mm Mauser) cartridges are loaded to a muzzle velocity of 1450 fps. German WWII issue ammo is rated at 1550 fps.

For most of my life 7.63mm Mauser has been 7.63mm Mauser or .30 Mauser Pistol. I think the 7.63x25mm is an atrocious neologism. The spec for the Mauser cartrdge case is 25.15mm length, for the Tokarev 25mm period, and it is recommended to check case length if reloading Mauser fired cases for cartridges for use in a Tokarev. Calling it 7.63x25mm is not historic and calling it 7.63x25.15mm would be inane.

You've got very good points, however, I like to make the distinction. 7.62 Mauser is very similar to 7.62 Tokarev, but it was chambered in 7.62 Mauser.

The example I use is .32 ACP. My Zastava M70 is chambered in 7.65 Browning. I recognize that it's the same thing as .32 ACP, I know it's basically the same thing. However, I like being accurate in my knowledge of arms.

It's just me being specific with the nomenclature. I completely agree with you, don't get me wrong, I guess I'm just very nitpicky.

 

[tark]

Is there an issue with attaching the stock, from a legal point of view?

Not at all. I was at the shop a couple of months ago and the ATF was there doing a compliance check. I brought up this very subject as I have a C-96 with an original matching holster/ stock. As long as the stock is an original and not a reproduction it is legal to attach and use.

Is there anything that should be checked, from a safety point of view?

Yes. Replace the springs unless you are sure they are in good shape. The hammer spring is critical. If it isn't strong, the barrel extension and bolt will move too soon and too fast. They will then crash against the bolt stop with excessive force.

Check the bolt spring with this simple test. Cock the hammer. Push on the muzzle until the barrel extension stops ( about 1/10" ) and slowly ease up your pressure on the muzzle The barrel extension should snap back to the forward position. If it doesn't, your bolt spring is worn out. Lastly, check the rear of the barrel extension for cracks around the bolt stop area. This is what can happen when a C-96 is fired too many times with weak springs. This gun was destroyed by factory 7.63 Mauser ammo. Notice that the bolt stop did not exit the gun. It was undamaged. It is almost literally impossible for a bolt stop to come flying back at the shooter because it has a hole in it which the firing pin passes through. And the firing pin is locked into the bolt itself. If the bolt stop is gonna come after the shooter, it's gonna have to bring the entire bolt assembly with it. I've never heard anybody claim that.

There is actually very little difference in standard loadings for between 7.62 Tokarev and 7.63 Mauser pistol rounds.

And you, sir, are actually absolutely correct. CIP figures for the 7.62X25 are 35,000 PSI. 33,000 for the C-96. SAAMI pressures for the 9X19 are 35,000, 9mm+p is 38,500 and supers weigh in at 36,500. I have had an argument or three here, about the safety of shooting 7.62X25 Tokarev ammo in my Broomie. Well, C-96s seemed to handle 9X19s just fine and the pressures for the nine and the Tok are the same. The 9X25 Export Mauser was loaded to 38,000 PSI and C-96s had no trouble with that round, either. That round featured a 128 gr. bullet @ 1362 FPS.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Thanks, Tark. I've dug mine out and run your checks, except the locking bolt. Need to review the field strip to check that.. It's not unusual for a hammer spring be part of resisting the recoil movement of the action parts (lot easier to rack a 1911 with the hammer cocked....), but hadn't realized it was that critical in the Broom. Is that why the hammer is vertical , and parallel to the rear of the bolt?
Am happy to hear that a catastrophic failure won't embed itself in my forehead.
Mine has been refinished, tho' neatly, and the parts numbers match.
What's your take on 1100'sec 115 9mms in my Red 9? I can turn down the heat on those a little if you think it prudent. It's not like it sees a lot of shooting.
Best,
Moon

 

[Carl N. Brown]

When I got my C96 the first thing I did was replace the original bolt spring and hammer spring.
In the C96 the hammer spring seems to do more for calming the recoil than the bolt spring.

 

[Gordon]

Ive had several Brooms and Bolo Mausers in my life time. The ones I owned after later 1980s always went to Oyster Bay where real WW2 Mauser gunsmith would replace all the springs and recut the markings and generally rebuild and or rebarrel them , reasonably until the New Millenium . They of course ran like tops after that . I had one Mauser Bolo model rebarreled to a 9mm and rebuilt and reblued and back then they had the cutest small holster shoulder stock for Bolos . I sold that one in middle 90s for a lot . The other 7.63 Brooms I have sold within last 10 years.
The coolest and most remembered C-96 I used for a few year but it was not mine . My boss of a large ranch in Big Sur I was foreman of in 1973-1978 had a stocked original Broom in 7.63 he handed me to use in my duties of the ranch. I kept it in the underseat utility compartment wrapped in a heavy soft plastic bag , of the 1970 FJ45 Toyota Landcruiser pickup like this one. I also had a few other guns of my own with me on most patrols of the ranch but the loaded in the stock holster Mauser and a box of softpoint Winchester ammo stayed with the Toyota in the locked under seat tool box even on runs off the ranch which I did on Tuesdays and Fridays .
Anyway the SBR was used a a slaughter instrument mostly. The ranch owner when he was around gave big parties (he made nature films around the world) and had a small herd of sheep and he loved "Lamb" from eating it all over the Third World and knew (and taught me) how to prepare it quickly and deliciously . He asked me to use the Mauser to harvest the livestock as he had done for decades and told me how to use the ladder sights on it for that load . Most shots were about 50 yards on the completely wild sheep he had in a large pasture , I shot them in the head everytime from mostly kneeling position , stocked of course. It was a fantastic slaughter cartridge that eventually I tested on pigs, wild and domestic and a goat or two . I even shot a couple steers with it in the 5 years on that ranch. If shot in the head properly the animals either collapsed or bounced off the ground with feet in the air. The soft point ammo would rivet slightly but seemed to hold together and many were clean thru the skulls if hit from the side. It damaged very little meat ! I loved that little gun ! The owner passed from brain cancer in 1979 after a brief stay in the hospital and his estate was managed by family members after we closed the ranch business and I left for a diploma and town town job with my wife and 3 year old son.

 

[vintovka]

TWO points

One: I NEVER shoot mine with my thumb over the shoulder stock!!. In the wrong position it can smash your bones. While not comfortable keeping your thumb alongside the stock may save some serious reconstructive surgery. Knew a fellow who did not and saw him at several months of shows with his arm in a partial cast.

Two: Brooms are rough on recoil springs. I believe they have a definite life after which damage occurs.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Nice video, Littlef.

The crown my collection is this circa 1915 - 17 Wartime Commercial C96 that I bought at the end of 2016. It was a WW2 GI bring-back. The stock is original, although the serial number doesn't match the pistol.

I almost peed my pants after I got it home and ran a couple patches through the bore, because it was damn near mint.



I really lucked out with the stock. I've yet to see another C96 stock with figure like this one.



I have a replica harness and cleaning rod for it, as well.



It get shot once or twice a year. I've probably put ~500 rounds of PPU through it with zero malfunctions. I have components and dies for reloading and want to work up a mild handload for it.

 

[dogtown tom]

That's what I call gun porn Dave.

 

[Speedo66]

Ive had several Brooms and Bolo Mausers in my life time. The ones I owned after later 1980s always went to Oyster Bay where real WW2 Mauser gunsmith would replace all the springs and recut the markings and generally rebuild and or rebarrel them , reasonably until the New Millenium . They of course ran like tops after that . I had one Mauser Bolo model rebarreled to a 9mm and rebuilt and reblued and back then they had the cutest small holster shoulder stock for Bolos . I sold that one in middle 90s for a lot . The other 7.63 Brooms I have sold within last 10 years.
The coolest and most remembered C-96 I used for a few year but it was not mine . My boss of a large ranch in Big Sur I was foreman of in 1973-1978 had a stocked original Broom in 7.63 he handed me to use in my duties of the ranch. I kept it in the underseat utility compartment wrapped in a heavy soft plastic bag , of the 1970 FJ45 Toyota Landcruiser pickup like this one. I also had a few other guns of my own with me on most patrols of the ranch but the loaded in the stock holster Mauser and a box of softpoint Winchester ammo stayed with the Toyota in the locked under seat tool box even on runs off the ranch which I did on Tuesdays and Fridays .
Anyway the SBR was used a a slaughter instrument mostly. The ranch owner when he was around gave big parties (he made nature films around the world) and had a small herd of sheep and he loved "Lamb" from eating it all over the Third World and knew (and taught me) how to prepare it quickly and deliciously . He asked me to use the Mauser to harvest the livestock as he had done for decades and told me how to use the ladder sights on it for that load . Most shots were about 50 yards on the completely wild sheep he had in a large pasture , I shot them in the head everytime from mostly kneeling position , stocked of course. It was a fantastic slaughter cartridge that eventually I tested on pigs, wild and domestic and a goat or two . I even shot a couple steers with it in the 5 years on that ranch. If shot in the head properly the animals either collapsed or bounced off the ground with feet in the air. The soft point ammo would rivet slightly but seemed to hold together and many were clean thru the skulls if hit from the side. It damaged very little meat ! I loved that little gun ! The owner passed from brain cancer in 1979 after a brief stay in the hospital and his estate was managed by family members after we closed the ranch business and I left for a diploma and town town job with my wife and 3 year old son.
View attachment 1056590View attachment 1056591

Given the location, that sounds like a dream job, especially getting to play with that Mauser. lol

I spent some time on the Monterey peninsular, just north of Big Sur, doing basic and AIT at Ft. Ord and loved it.

 

[Gordon]

Actually in 1971, returning from second tour in RVN and before the term PTSD was coined , I fled the East Coast craziness for the open spaces at the end of the earth as far as I could get in CONUS ! Such a life style , away from old family and friends and giant buildings and organizations let me decompress and start a new life with out VA help. In fact after a year or so I reenlisted in Army reserves and went to warrant Officer Intel school and was locally stationed for scheduled monthly duty at the near by Hunter Liggett for 14 more years !

 

[RedlegRick]

Thank you, OP, the C96 has been a Grail gun for me for a long time now. Had an absolutely thrashed unit way back in the late eighties, got it 'cheap', but it needed serious attention I couldn't provide, so I let it go. Had a chance a year ago, but before I could put the money together, someone snatched it up.

 

[Jim Watson]

A .30 rebored to 9mm is a convenience and a way to salvage a barrel neglected by one of Mao's Guys. But a friend had one that was not at all reliable in feeding, even with 9mm P at maximum OAL. I would want to test fire one of those fako "Red Nines" before I paid for it.

 

[tark]

I have components and dies for reloading and want to work up a mild handload for it.

Been there, done that, didn't work. If your springs are in good shape, mild handloads usually don't work in a C-96. You pretty much need full power loads to cycle the action.

 

[tark]

I NEVER shoot mine with my thumb over the shoulder stock!!. I

Looking at Dave's picture of the stock mounted on the gun, there seem to be ample room to rest your thumb on the stock, if one desires to, without it being anywhere the recoiling bolt.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

I shoot mine with my thumb resting alongside the stock, to avoid hammer bite.

Whether or not you get hammer bite from holding it with your thumb on top of the stock probably depends on how beefy your hands are. I've never wanted to risk it. YMMV.

 

[Patocazador]

I have one manufactured in 1897 with the holster/stock. My dad picked it up in Brazil and gave it to me. I have shot it one clip worth in the last 25 years. It is in pitiful shape BUT it IS a 96 in 7.63.