(CA) School's symbol catches flak

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Drizzt

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School's symbol catches flak

Some at Encinal High contend a Marine jet is an inappropriate icon of violence.

By Herbert A. Sample -- Bee San Francisco Bureau
Published 2:15 a.m. PDT Sunday, May 4, 2003

ALAMEDA -- Just a stone's throw from Encinal High School on this island town's western end sits the once-bustling but now-shuttered Alameda Naval Air Station. The proximity is not merely physical: The school's athletic teams are the Jets, its newspaper is the Jet Blast, and its mascot is a smiling cartoon plane.
But the harmony between school and armed services is under strain now as a small group of Encinal's teachers and parents attempts to bar the return of a retired Marine Corps jet to a display on the school's front yard.

The disagreement between those who see the jet, a decommissioned A-4 Skyhawk fighter that saw duty in the Vietnam War, as symbolic of American militarism and those who perceive it as a benign icon reflects a larger change in the city's attitude and makeup.

In March, for example, the Alameda City Council unanimously passed a resolution that was widely perceived as implicitly opposing a U.S.-led war in Iraq.

Neither the resolution nor the effort to thwart the presence of the A-4 Skyhawk would have surfaced 10 or 20 years ago when the station was operating and the city's economy and population were so closely tied to it, said Tony Daysog, an Alameda councilman who was Encinal's student body president when the jet arrived in 1984.

"There's less affinity for the military and all it represents now than what was there five to 10 years ago," Daysog said.

The jet arrived as a loan from the Navy to the campus Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps unit. It is one of only three former U.S. military planes displayed at high schools, according to Jim Curry of the National Museum of Naval Aviation in Pensacola, Fla., which oversees the loan program.

At the time, Alameda Naval Air Station was in its fifth decade of operation, the home port for numerous warships and aviation units. One of those vessels was the USS Hornet, a World War II-era aircraft carrier that is now a museum at the base, which closed in 1997 and is now called Alameda Point.

The relationship between the air station and Encinal blossomed when the school opened in the 1950s. As many as a quarter of the students hailed from military families, and the decision to name the school's teams the Jets was an obvious link to the base's aviation mission.

In the past 20 years, the A-4's appearance worsened from weather, graffiti and pranks, and the surrounding island changed, too. Census data show that since 1990, island residents have become more white collar, better educated, more Asian and less white, said Daysog, an urban planner.

The only active-duty military presence here now is a Coast Guard station, and the economy has broadened to include the technology industry.

When Encinal Principal Bill Sonneman arrived last year, he promised to rejuvenate the plane, and it was rolled into Alameda Point earlier this year to be sanded and repainted by a firm that restores buses.

Several students assisted with the work, which was completed a few weeks ago. Meanwhile, a handful of alumni donated materials and labor for construction of a concrete foundation and a metal pylon on which the plane is to be mounted.

In all, the work will cost about $13,000, Sonneman said. A long-standing restoration fund will cover a third of that, he said. An anonymous graduate lent $10,000, which is to be repaid from the sale of plaques around the plane's base, the principal added.

But about a dozen teachers, staff members and parents say that money could have bought books or covered other educational or facility needs. Moreover, the plane doesn't represent what Alameda has become, said Carlos Zialcita, an Encinal computer teacher who initiated the drive against the jet.

"I would see it as sort of a leftover from a previous era," Zialcita said. "The parents of our Vietnamese and Cambodian and Afghan kids especially ... have been affected by the tragedies of war, and I think we shouldn't say that that's insignificant or somehow not important."

David Olstad, a volunteer who assists on technical support issues at the school, said, "I'd just as soon see a .357 Magnum blown up and put on a pedestal. I mean, there's no difference to me. It's glorifying violence."

Janet Gibson, a school board member and Alameda resident since 1973, said she's long considered the jet an inappropriate emblem for Encinal. "I would think there is a better symbol for the school, something that might reflect education and intelligence," she said.

But symbolism is often in the eye of the beholder, and the A-4's advocates view the plane simply as a manifestation of the school's team name and nothing more.

"It's like we were the Encinal High School 'Bears' and someone gave a bronze statue of a bear and we were mounting that," said Mark Allegrotti, who graduated from Encinal in 1978. He has two daughters attending the school and built the foundation for the restored jet. "It's the same thing," he said.

Sonneman, whose three daughters graduated from Encinal, perceives the jet more as a representation of success -- of graduates "soaring to the future," as he put it -- than anything military.

"Students have been coming up to me asking when is it going to come back, not to not bring it back," he said, noting that Encinal is committed through the loan agreement with the Navy to keep the plane presentable.

Indeed, a meeting last week of students, parents, teachers and administrators demonstrated that many students support the plane's presence at the campus entrance. More discussions are to be held, and Sonneman, noting that Encinal is committed through the loan agreement with the Navy to keep the plane presentable, said he is willing to consider ways to mollify the plane's opponents. But he insisted it is too late to stop its return.

Besides, said Curry of the naval aviation museum, the school will be on the hook for the expense of returning the plane if another entity cannot be found to take it. "When people get into this kind of scenario," he said, "I usually tell them. 'Make sure you have $10,000 in the bank.' "



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/6567339p-7517503c.html

"I would think there is a better symbol for the school, something that might reflect education and intelligence,"
...like it didn't take education and intelligence to design, build, or fly a jet...
 
Oh, no!!!!! The kids might see that freedom was won by the military and not frizzy-headed NEA sycophants! Oh, no! The kids might choose to serve their country instead of being lay-around bums! Oh, no! Weapons are nasty, icky-poo! A more appropriate icon for schools today is a big steaming pile of bovine excrement.:rolleyes:


Bet these teachers don't have any problems presenting terrorists as "freedom fighters" in their "history" classes. Maybe if it was a MIG flown by a North Vietnamese pilot, they wouldn't object. Or a Russian tank used in Czechoslovakia. Then it would be ok.
 
Ah, just another chapter in what I call the "Pussification of America."

I figure in another couple of generations our military won't be able to mount a campaign without crates of Evian and Perrier, sparkles, and guns that shoot soft rubber bullets.
 
Everyone wants the freedom to bitch, whine and complain. No one wants to acknowledge that our military has played a major roll in maintaining those precious freedoms. They have in the past, they will in the future. I guess these morons think that harsh language and wishful thinking will prevail (or the UN will protect us :barf: )

With the abandonment of teaching history for politically correct revisionism and time dimming the memory of WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, the Cold War, even DS, no wonder these morons don’t have any appreciation for the necessary sacrifices our men and women in uniform have made that allow this kind of bull:cuss: to take place.

Mike has it absolutely correct. One or two more generations and the typical American will be terrified of their own shadow.

It disgusts me. :fire:
 
It's true it's true.

I grew up in the 50's in Tucson, AZ. I heard Fighters breaking the sound barrier at all hours, I saw a B-36 fly so low over my house it looked like you could reach up and touch it. Living so close to Davis Monthen A.F.B., I saw all kinds of violent war machines. Look what it did to me. I'm a Christian pro gun anti tax pro sovereignty flag waiving citizen who doesn't trust the motivations of politicians.:(

Just think how much better off I'd be if I'd been raised in San Fransisco by comunist university prof's. :neener:
 
Marine jet is an inappropriate icon of violence.

In the town where I grew up there was a National Guard armory. For years there was a tank parked on the corner of the intersection where the armory was- as kids we used to climb on it and play army. As teenagers we used to climb on it and take pictures. As an adult I used to take my niece and put her up on it and let her play, I took pictures of her and her friends.

Liberals (yes- the epitome of evil) moved into town, condos were built to accomodate them- they didn't like the tank across the street and now it is gone.


http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/6567339p-7517503c.html

School's symbol catches flak

Some at Encinal High contend a Marine jet is an inappropriate icon of violence.

By Herbert A. Sample -- Bee San Francisco Bureau
Published 2:15 a.m. PDT Sunday, May 4, 2003

ALAMEDA -- Just a stone's throw from Encinal High School on this island town's western end sits the once-bustling but now-shuttered Alameda Naval Air Station. The proximity is not merely physical: The school's athletic teams are the Jets, its newspaper is the Jet Blast, and its mascot is a smiling cartoon plane.
But the harmony between school and armed services is under strain now as a small group of Encinal's teachers and parents attempts to bar the return of a retired Marine Corps jet to a display on the school's front yard.

The disagreement between those who see the jet, a decommissioned A-4 Skyhawk fighter that saw duty in the Vietnam War, as symbolic of American militarism and those who perceive it as a benign icon reflects a larger change in the city's attitude and makeup.

In March, for example, the Alameda City Council unanimously passed a resolution that was widely perceived as implicitly opposing a U.S.-led war in Iraq.

Neither the resolution nor the effort to thwart the presence of the A-4 Skyhawk would have surfaced 10 or 20 years ago when the station was operating and the city's economy and population were so closely tied to it, said Tony Daysog, an Alameda councilman who was Encinal's student body president when the jet arrived in 1984.

"There's less affinity for the military and all it represents now than what was there five to 10 years ago," Daysog said.

The jet arrived as a loan from the Navy to the campus Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps unit. It is one of only three former U.S. military planes displayed at high schools, according to Jim Curry of the National Museum of Naval Aviation in Pensacola, Fla., which oversees the loan program.

At the time, Alameda Naval Air Station was in its fifth decade of operation, the home port for numerous warships and aviation units. One of those vessels was the USS Hornet, a World War II-era aircraft carrier that is now a museum at the base, which closed in 1997 and is now called Alameda Point.

The relationship between the air station and Encinal blossomed when the school opened in the 1950s. As many as a quarter of the students hailed from military families, and the decision to name the school's teams the Jets was an obvious link to the base's aviation mission.

In the past 20 years, the A-4's appearance worsened from weather, graffiti and pranks, and the surrounding island changed, too. Census data show that since 1990, island residents have become more white collar, better educated, more Asian and less white, said Daysog, an urban planner.

The only active-duty military presence here now is a Coast Guard station, and the economy has broadened to include the technology industry.

When Encinal Principal Bill Sonneman arrived last year, he promised to rejuvenate the plane, and it was rolled into Alameda Point earlier this year to be sanded and repainted by a firm that restores buses.

Several students assisted with the work, which was completed a few weeks ago. Meanwhile, a handful of alumni donated materials and labor for construction of a concrete foundation and a metal pylon on which the plane is to be mounted.

In all, the work will cost about $13,000, Sonneman said. A long-standing restoration fund will cover a third of that, he said. An anonymous graduate lent $10,000, which is to be repaid from the sale of plaques around the plane's base, the principal added.

But about a dozen teachers, staff members and parents say that money could have bought books or covered other educational or facility needs. Moreover, the plane doesn't represent what Alameda has become, said Carlos Zialcita, an Encinal computer teacher who initiated the drive against the jet.

"I would see it as sort of a leftover from a previous era," Zialcita said. "The parents of our Vietnamese and Cambodian and Afghan kids especially ... have been affected by the tragedies of war, and I think we shouldn't say that that's insignificant or somehow not important."

David Olstad, a volunteer who assists on technical support issues at the school, said, "I'd just as soon see a .357 Magnum blown up and put on a pedestal. I mean, there's no difference to me. It's glorifying violence."

Janet Gibson, a school board member and Alameda resident since 1973, said she's long considered the jet an inappropriate emblem for Encinal. "I would think there is a better symbol for the school, something that might reflect education and intelligence," she said.

But symbolism is often in the eye of the beholder, and the A-4's advocates view the plane simply as a manifestation of the school's team name and nothing more.

"It's like we were the Encinal High School 'Bears' and someone gave a bronze statue of a bear and we were mounting that," said Mark Allegrotti, who graduated from Encinal in 1978. He has two daughters attending the school and built the foundation for the restored jet. "It's the same thing," he said.

Sonneman, whose three daughters graduated from Encinal, perceives the jet more as a representation of success -- of graduates "soaring to the future," as he put it -- than anything military.

"Students have been coming up to me asking when is it going to come back, not to not bring it back," he said, noting that Encinal is committed through the loan agreement with the Navy to keep the plane presentable.

Indeed, a meeting last week of students, parents, teachers and administrators demonstrated that many students support the plane's presence at the campus entrance. More discussions are to be held, and Sonneman, noting that Encinal is committed through the loan agreement with the Navy to keep the plane presentable, said he is willing to consider ways to mollify the plane's opponents. But he insisted it is too late to stop its return.

Besides, said Curry of the naval aviation museum, the school will be on the hook for the expense of returning the plane if another entity cannot be found to take it. "When people get into this kind of scenario," he said, "I usually tell them. 'Make sure you have $10,000 in the bank.' "
 
David Olstad, a volunteer who assists on technical support issues at the school, said, "I'd just as soon see a .357 Magnum blown up and put on a pedestal. I mean, there's no difference to me. It's glorifying violence."
OK. I can live with that:D How 'bout both the A-4 and the .357? Oh. That's right--this is California.:rolleyes:
BTW, I'd love to know the Bureau Number on the tail of that A-4E; I bet somewhere in 4,000 hours of Skyhawk time, I've flown that very bird. They better take care of it!

TC
TFL Survivor
 
I have an aunt that I haven't met that lives in Alameda. She's coming east ths summer so I'll finally get to meet her. Apparently, she is like the rest of the women in my family, typical liberal dem type. I can't wait to throw down with her and send her packing back to her little pinko paradise. Needless to say, this article will be discussed.
 
"I would think there is a better symbol for the school, something that might reflect education and intelligence," she said.


I'm thinking of an Ostrich, head buried in the dirt. :D
 
Our society wants our military to do our bidding, but we do not honor them. So would the raising of the flag on Iwo Jima statue be an "inappropriate symbol of violence"!? :fire:
 
These people want a democracy, well here it is. They're in the minority. They lose.

Oh, but you just don't understand them. They think that if they FEEL strongly enough about something that those FEELINGS are more important than rights, law and even the democracy that they scream about.

This country is going to “feel†itself to death. :barf:
 
Actually, I'd bet the Vietnamese and Afghani kids might have a special appreciation for the plane, or at least their parents would. Unlike in the PRK, a lot of people from those places don't view the Soviets as "good guys."
 
If Alameda HS doesn't want it, I've got first dibs. My private one plane museum.
 
That is pretty sad.

Heck, my old high school still uses the ROCKETS. I just checked. I didn't see if they still have the rocket mounted on two poles out front, but they did not too long ago.

And get this...it's in Rockville, county seat of Montgomery County, MD. You know - Chief Moose, Democrats, home of the no gun shows at the county fairgrounds law and all that.

John
 
How do you know that your aunt is a leftwing liberal?
My mother and my aunt have told me all about her. I've never met her but my aunt (mom's sister) calls our other aunt (mom's aunt) my nemesis. It's rough being the only normal person in the family.
 
Moderator,

Perhaps this thread should be consolidated with Drizzt's on the same subject?
 
"I'd just as soon see a .357 Magnum blown up and put on a pedestal. I mean, there's no difference to me. It's glorifying violence."


Why can people only see guns as being violent? Do they have fear issues? Why do I not see violence in guns, all the time?
 
Why can people only see guns as being violent? Do they have fear issues? Why do I not see violence in guns, all the time?

Where in today's culture can a individual find ANY positive mention of a firearm in the information sources they are typically exposed to?

Think about it. Almost every time we see a story when someone properly uses a gun the facts are wrong or there's an obvious bias (well, it worked THIS TIME, but YOU should always call 911 instead). Even when one is reported properly it's outweighed by the ocean of negative stories.

When was the last TV show or film you saw that portrayed law-abiding gun owners (a regular Joe, not LE or feds) as responsible individuals or accurately reflected a clearly positive use of a firearm? No, that doesn't include the "good guy" blowing away the "bad guy" in some action-adventure flick.

Most law-abiding gun owners are boring as far as the media is concerned. We mind our P’s and Q’s, play by the rules and live normal lives. There’s this stereotype that somehow you must be “different†(in a negative way) if you are interested in firearms.

I know the feeling well. I learned to fly shortly after graduating High School. When I was younger people who would find that out used to think that made me somehow extraordinary, different than them. Nope. Just a kid that had some ability, interest and an opportunity, that’s all. Same thing with guns.
 
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